OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 03:43 pm
blatham wrote:
"If"????

You and I had better put off further instances of this conversation until some point in the future.
Laughing

Yes Blatham… I suppose it would be a lot easier to skip over this than to try and defend it.
sozobe wrote:
Quote:
"First it is factually not true that everybody that supported that resolution supported Bush attacking Iraq before the UN inspectors were through. Chuck Hagel was one of the co-authors of that resolution. The only Republican Senator that always opposed the war. Every day from the get-go. He authored the resolution to say that Bush could go to war only if they didn't co-operate with the inspectors and he was assured personally by Condi Rice as many of the other Senators were. So, first the case is wrong that way."


blatham wrote:
Do you find something factually wrong here? Is there some inference or suggestion lurking which I do not apprehend?


Yes. It's a strawman. Bill set up a strawman and then burned the strawman. HILLARY voted for the war. Obama was against the war from the beginning. That's what's at issue.


And imperative to skip over this…

sozobe wrote:
Quote:
"Or what about the Obama hand out that was covered up, the press never reported on, implying that I was a crook? Scouring me, scathing criticism, over my financial reports. Ken Starr spent $70 million and indicted innocent people to find out that I wouldn't take a nickel to see the cow jump over the moon.

Quote:
Again, I don't know to what this alludes.


I don't either, and this is the single part that bothers me the most. He's accusing Obama of something here. What is it? Where's the proof? Or is it all just inferences?


Exactly what is this "Obama hand out"? Substance? Or pure scumbaggery? (Maybe the hated right hacked into his teleprompter Shocked)
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 03:58 pm
sozobe wrote:
sozobe wrote:


Quote:
"Or what about the Obama hand out that was covered up, the press never reported on, implying that I was a crook? Scouring me, scathing criticism, over my financial reports. Ken Starr spent $70 million and indicted innocent people to find out that I wouldn't take a nickel to see the cow jump over the moon.

Quote:
Again, I don't know to what this alludes.


I don't either, and this is the single part that bothers me the most. He's accusing Obama of something here. What is it? Where's the proof? Or is it all just inferences?


Not to mention that I just realized its internal logic doesn't hold up. If the press has been giving Obama a pass and piling on Hillary, wouldn't they have talked about this hand-out extensively? Helped the Obama campaign by forwarding the idea that Bill was somehow a crook? He's contradicting himself here -- the press DIDN'T report on this, whatever "this" is, and whether "this" ever existed.



Is all of this about these two memos the Obama campaign passed on, last summer?

In that light, Clinton's comments would make some sense - as in "Look, they are saying that they don't want to pull off these kinds of dirty tricks, and behind the scenes they're passing on these memos."
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 04:09 pm
Could you please quote that, OE? The link caused my CPU to become unstable, for some reason.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 04:15 pm
It's from the NYT politics blog... Let's see:





links are PDFs.


Don't know if this is it, but from the context of what Clinton said, it makes kind of sense.

Also, it's kind of old news.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 04:57 pm
Sorry.
Take time to read this text.

"Less than meets the eye

January 11, 2008 | Page 9

LANCE SELFA asks what Barack Obama stands for when you look beyond the rhetoric.

MILLIONS OF people are rightly inspired by the prospect of electing an African American president in a country founded on slavery.

Sen. Barack Obama's big success in the Iowa caucuses and his elevation to co-frontrunner status in the Democratic primaries appears to be based on channeling the hopes of millions who are tired of the Washington political establishment that Sen. Hillary Clinton personifies.

Obama's profile as a candidate of “change” who wants to transcend the partisan battles of the past appears to be attracting support from large numbers of people, including young people, who had not been involved in politics before. In this sense, Obama's early success is good news for those who want a break with the stale right-wing orthodoxy that has dominated mainstream politics for a generation.

But when you look beyond his inspirational rhetoric, what does Obama actually stand for? And what would his ideal of a post-partisan government look like?

In many ways, Obama remains what Ezra Klein, writing in the American Prospect early last year, described him--“a cipher, an easy repository for the hopes and dreams of liberals everywhere.”

Though Clinton was able to come back five days later with a victory in New Hampshire, the Iowa results at least showed that Obama isn't the 2008 version of Howard Dean--the challenger to the party establishment whose success in motivating some activists and collecting millions in Internet contributions came to nothing in the 2004 primaries.

There are many reasons why Obama isn't Dean, but one is surely that Obama has a much deeper line into the existing party establishment than Dean did.

We know this because Obama matched Clinton's war chest by tapping the same corporate and wealthy sources of money Clinton does. Obama's finance chair is Penny Pritzker--an heir to the Hyatt Hotel fortune and major Democratic donor--is an experienced fundraiser.

Obama has collected more donations from “individuals” than Clinton has, but many of these “individuals” are the same type as Clinton's: corporate management people who “bundle” their contributions with others from their firms.

In fact, according to Federal Election Commission data tabulated by the Center for Responsive Politics, Clinton and Obama run first and second among Democrats and Republicans in contributions from the following industries: commercial banks, computers/Internet, education, health professionals, pharmaceuticals, and television and film.

Clinton and Obama were nearly tied in contributions received from hedge funds and private equity firms (both come in behind former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani). Save for about a $1,000 advantage to Giuliani, Obama would have ranked second to Clinton in funds from the securities industry.

It appears that a segment of the people to whom the Democratic Party really responds believe that Obama is best situated to win in November. It may even be that “Clinton fatigue” has set in among this group. It certainly isn't because Obama's politics or policies represent anything sharply different from Clinton's.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
IF YOU compare Obama's and Clinton's positions on most issues, point for point, they hardly differ. As the campaign wore on through 2007, even their positions on the Iraq war--still Obama's strongest trump card against her--appeared to converge.

So with little of substance separating them, Obama gained support on other, gauzier themes: youth, “change” and some vague notion that he can bring people together across the political spectrum.

Because the Clintons have dominated the Democratic establishment for almost two decades, it's easy to forget that Bill Clinton also positioned himself and Al Gore in 1992 as “new voices for a new generation”--the Baby Boomers who would displace the Second World War generation, as embodied by WWII veteran George H.W. Bush.

Obama often criticizes Clinton's relentless “triangulation”--unprincipled maneuvering to some “center” against both conservatives and liberals. Yet Obama's talk about being able to strike bipartisan deals in Washington sounds suspiciously like the Great Triangulator himself, Bill Clinton, when he ran for president in 1992.

“When we put aside partisanship, embrace the best ideas, regardless of where they come from, and work for principled compromise, we can move America not left or right, but forward”--that may sound like a line from Obama's current stump speech, but it was actually from a Clinton speech in 1992.

One might even go so far as to characterize Obama's 2008 stance as “Clintonism without Clinton.”

This is one reason why Hillary Clinton, having lost the aura of “inevitability” that seemed to surround her nomination, may still struggle to win the argument against Obama, even with her victory in New Hampshire.

As the liberal journalist Joe Conason pointed out in Salon after the Democratic debate in New Hampshire, when it seemed like Obama would ride the momentum from Iowa to another victory in New Hampshire: “Clinton was unable to exploit the mistakes committed by Obama. His sly gestures toward the right and the Republicans, his inadequate health care proposal and his Social Security gaffes [i.e., endorsing the privatizers' view that Social Security faces a “crisis”] offered her the chance to flank him on the left, where he was strongest and she was weakest, owing to her Iraq war vote.

“She scored in the debate over health care, but retreated when he attacked her plan's mandated coverage (as if his own plan didn't include a mandate to insure children).”

Conason attributed Clinton's failure to exploit Obama's weaknesses to being “weighed down by her advisors and her own habitual style.” But another equally plausible explanation is that Obama's rightward moves don't strike Clinton as all that remarkable--since they reinforced policy stances close to her own.

Those who are counting on Obama's promises to “reach across the aisle” to get things done might take a look at Obama's record on health care reform in the Illinois General Assembly.

According to a September 2007 report in the Boston Globe, Obama's role in passing 2004 legislation committing the state of Illinois to the goal of universal health care amounted to helping water down the bill on behalf of health insurance companies. One leading health care activist told the Globe, “In this situation, Obama was being a conduit from the insurance industry to us.”

If this is what post-partisanship and compromise really mean to Obama, the millions who invested their hopes in him will be disappointed. But the smaller group who invested their millions in him may be very satisfied indeed.
http://www.socialistworker.org/2008-1/657/657_09_Obama.shtml
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 05:16 pm
Quote:
blatham wrote:
"If"????

You and I had better put off further instances of this conversation until some point in the future.


Yes Blatham… I suppose it would be a lot easier to skip over this than to try and defend it.
sozobe wrote:
Quote:
"First it is factually not true that everybody that supported that resolution supported Bush attacking Iraq before the UN inspectors were through. Chuck Hagel was one of the co-authors of that resolution. The only Republican Senator that always opposed the war. Every day from the get-go. He authored the resolution to say that Bush could go to war only if they didn't co-operate with the inspectors and he was assured personally by Condi Rice as many of the other Senators were. So, first the case is wrong that way."


blatham wrote:
Do you find something factually wrong here? Is there some inference or suggestion lurking which I do not apprehend?


Yes. It's a strawman. Bill set up a strawman and then burned the strawman. HILLARY voted for the war. Obama was against the war from the beginning. That's what's at issue.


(Aside from the question of what she voted for or thought she was voting for or was told prior to the vote) Oh, my god! The Clinton campaign is of such degraded nature, of such unplumbed depths of meanness, incivility and failures of character that it will actually stoop to campaigning using a logical fallacy!!!

In the terms of this discussion, in the terms of what we are talking about regarding the comparative treatment by the media (and many here) of Clinton and Obama (and everyone else running) this is just phucking foolish as a point to stand as evidence regarding how horrible the clinton campaign is.

You, bill, have recently been trying to play a gotcha game with me of the "You are conveniently skipping over _______ because you must" sort. Either you've missed prior relevant parts of the conversation or you just want to have some debate fun. But I'm not going to play. You're a fine fellow, I'm just not interested in the exercise.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 05:28 pm
Obama made some noise due to the corporate tacit support( obviously because of Bush's pathetic achievement)
Slowly Obama go out of limelight.
The lady who will reach the last stage of this election has no interest to uplift the American nor to fulfill the AMERICAN DREAM.
Bush had united the whole world and divided his own texas( forget about the whole USA)
Adieu Obama.
You will be the PRESIDENT of USA 2012.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 06:09 pm
Thanks OE. That must have been it. But it hardly serves as an excuse for Bill Clinton to say "Or what about the Obama hand out that was covered up…" That is straight dirty pool.

Blatham: Had a Republican done that to Hillary; you would be the first to point out how clever it was to put "hand out" and "cover up" in the same sentence; iterated how that may stick in some psyche recesses, and you would have found it an outrage. Is it the height of dirty pool? Hardly. But it is most certainly dirty pool of the variety you're over defending the Clinton's for being accused of. Same goes for his blatant Strawman. Sure, compared to Swiftboating it is a minor matter of BS peddling… but at the end of the day he is purposely misrepresenting the facts in an attempt to smear Obama into looking like he's the one lying. It is precisely the kind of dirty trick you despise coming from the Right.

I don't mean to attack you, any more than my disdain for Edwards is any reflection on Nimh. I do mean to point out that your defense of the Clinton's is unsupported by the facts. I don't expect to convince you, but just as I considered shedding light on Edward's scumbaggery my duty; so too do I feel compelled to counter your over-the-top defenses of the Clintons. There is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. When the press points out a propensity for cunning, it isn't just bashing Hillary… and it most certainly shouldn't be a fore drawn conclusion that gender was even considered.

My apologies for any offense I may cause, but not unlike Bill Clinton, you can spin pretty good cloth out of very questionable thread. Please don't take any shots I throw your way on this subject personally; Hillary Clinton is my intended target.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 06:54 pm
This is how they judge marrows at end of season allotment gigs in Middle England. After it's all over they get pissed, make friends and start shagging each other.

Bernie- aren't all of your arguments posited on the war being a big mistake. You haven't yet proved that to be the case.

All you have proved is that you are quick to bolt when the going gets tough.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 08:44 pm
bill said
Quote:
Please don't take any shots I throw your way on this subject personally;


Truly, I have not. I am merely impatient these days.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 08:52 pm
blatham wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Donna Brazile did, too.

Honestly Blatham... you see nothing to object to in Bill's speech?

Or are you saying that yes, of course, they'll "go negative" and make **** up, and that's fine?


Let's go through it. First off, the writer's intro...

Quote:
An indignant, finger-pointing Clinton said:

How dare he?! Criticism of the press! Just like a Clinton to turn around and put the attention on someone else. Just like Bill to make judgements after everything he has done with internes and cigars.

Quote:
"But since you raised the judgment issue, let's go over this again. That is the central argument for his campaign. 'It doesn't matter that I started running for president less a year after I got to the Senate from the Illinois State Senate. I am a great speaker and a charismatic figure and I'm the only one who had the judgment to oppose this war from the beginning. Always, always, always.' "

"First it is factually not true that everybody that supported that resolution supported Bush attacking Iraq before the UN inspectors were through. Chuck Hagel was one of the co-authors of that resolution. The only Republican Senator that always opposed the war. Every day from the get-go. He authored the resolution to say that Bush could go to war only if they didn't co-operate with the inspectors and he was assured personally by Condi Rice as many of the other Senators were. So, first the case is wrong that way."


Do you find something factually wrong here? Is there some inference or suggestion lurking which I do not apprehend?



Quote:
"Second, it is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, numerating the years, and never got asked one time, not once, 'Well, how could you say, that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war and you took that speech you're now running on off your website in 2004 and there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since?' Give me a break.

Here?

Quote:
"This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen...


You've mentioned the 'fairy tale' phrase earlier. What exactly is your problem with that phrase?

My probem with it is that in each of those 15 debate instances referred to by Bill, Barack Obama was speaking about the exclusive group of Presidential candidates he was debating with when he made his statements. Chuck Hagel was not a candidate and was not one of the participants of the debate. It is a blatant misprepresentation.


Quote:
So you can talk about Mark Penn all you want. What did you think about the Obama thing calling Hillary the Senator from Punjab? Did you like that?"

I don't know this 'punjab' allusion. We talked earlier on the Penn/cocaine thing and I expressed my opinion that it was as Trippi described it.

It's also accurate to make the argument that in even bringing up the 'madrassa' term, is to forward the rightwing smear. But there are two sides to that. To continually forward the proposition that Hillary's campaign is 'attacking', 'dirty', 'malicious' is to forward a different rightwing smear. You yourself are contributing to this, soz.

Quote:
"Or what about the Obama hand out that was covered up, the press never reported on, implying that I was a crook? Scouring me, scathing criticism, over my financial reports. Ken Starr spent $70 million and indicted innocent people to find out that I wouldn't take a nickel to see the cow jump over the moon.

Again, I don't know to what this alludes.

Quote:
"So, you can take a shot at Mark Penn if you want. It wasn't his best day. He was hurt, he felt badly that we didn't do better in Iowa. But you know, the idea that one of these campaigns is positive and the other is negative when I know the reverse is true and I have seen it and I have been blistered by it for months, is a little tough to take. Just because of the sanitizing coverage that's in the media, doesn't mean the facts aren't out there.

And here I see the press bias (and your own bias) as the valid complaint Bill is arguing, for all the reasons I've mentioned above.
Bill must have forgotten about all the press coverage over the Obama staffer who created the Clinton 1984 Apple video on his own time.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 09:00 pm
blatham wrote:
Quote:
Last night, Kristol, in his natural habitat on Fox News, snidely dismissed Clinton's victory as follows: "It's the tears. She pretended to cry. The women felt sorry for her. And she won." Neoconservatives never err. They are only victimized by the flaws of others -- in this case by the incomparably calculated manipulation of Hillary Clinton and the vapidity of female voters.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?last_story=/opinion/greenwald/2008/01/09/matthews/


This is exactly the reaction that gets my ire up enough to vote for Hillary. It has nothing to do with Hillary, her tears or her campaign.

Not only do they heap ridicule on a woman for showing a bit of emotional passion, now they heap on the crap that all women are stupid enough to fall for a display of tears as a reason to vote for anyone.

Stereotypical bull crap. Just like the "well if he's Black we know all the other Blacks will vote for him because of that" or the "well, if he's liked by all those Whites then he must not be Black enough."
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 09:01 pm
spendius said
Quote:
Bernie- aren't all of your arguments posited on the war being a big mistake. You haven't yet proved that to be the case.

All you have proved is that you are quick to bolt when the going gets tough.


To the first suggestion...no, that's not even close to being accurate.

To the second...I have to answer to the demands of my own integrity. How you conceive of the world or of my behavior here I consider a matter which is your responsibility.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 09:08 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
blatham wrote:
Quote:
Last night, Kristol, in his natural habitat on Fox News, snidely dismissed Clinton's victory as follows: "It's the tears. She pretended to cry. The women felt sorry for her. And she won." Neoconservatives never err. They are only victimized by the flaws of others -- in this case by the incomparably calculated manipulation of Hillary Clinton and the vapidity of female voters.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?last_story=/opinion/greenwald/2008/01/09/matthews/


This is exactly the reaction that gets my ire up enough to vote for Hillary. It has nothing to do with Hillary, her tears or her campaign.

Not only do they heap ridicule on a woman for showing a bit of emotional passion, now they heap on the crap that all women are stupid enough to fall for a display of tears as a reason to vote for anyone.

Stereotypical bull crap. Just like the "well if he's Black we know all the other Blacks will vote for him because of that" or the "well, if he's liked by all those Whites then he must not be Black enough."


I know, darlin'.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 09:18 pm
Re: Obama is an organizer; Clinton is an implementer
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Obama is not being questioned by the Media nor his speech audiences the same way as Senator Clinton is accepting and answering questions. When will people realize that they know very little about how he would solve the nations problems?



When will people realize that all the information they've been wanting to know about Barack Obama has been available to them for more than a year now? When will they stop refusing to read it for themselves rather than wait for some reporter to interpret it for them?

If people refuse to read Barack Obama's books, speeches and legislation because they are too wordy or too long, here's a Reader's Digest version of it.

Can't get much better or more concise detail than the current Wikipedia articles on Obama. There are two of them, one on his biography and the other on his political positions. The nice thing about them is the included footnotes on sources if needed. Here are the links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Barack_Obama


As far as Barack not being questioned by his speech audiences, perhaps you have missed all the town hall meetings he held last year in several states where people asked and he answered questions on many issues. I realize they were during the time that the media was complaining about how early the political season got started and insisted that people were getting burned out by the numerous political rallies and town hall meetings. But, there was a lot of press coverage about those meetings.

The good news is that Obama continues to hold such meetings and you'll have more opportunities to see question and answer sessions, unlike other candidates who ignored questions during the prior year and only answered them two days before a vote when they couldn't be rebutted.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 09:24 pm
spendius wrote:
Bernie- aren't all of your arguments posited on the war being a big mistake.
Were that the case; he'd be compelled to switch teams and start backing Obama, who actually did oppose the action in Iraq from the get go. Hillary was one of the last to abandon that ship.
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 09:48 pm
RON PAULS THE REAL DEAL,

Obama is just noise.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 10:08 pm
stevewonder wrote:
RON PAULS THE REAL DEAL,

Obama is just noise.


God gave some of us a complex cognitive process. Others, he gave a bumper sticker.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2008 10:43 pm
Cognative? Wasn't she one of the characters in that TV show about two New York female police detectives? I think their names were Cognative and Loonacy. :wink:

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/070516/cagney_l.jpg
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2008 04:11 am
More than Croc Tears or Nasty Bill Attacks
I submit for your examination... the premise that Hillary's erstwhile "comeback" in NH had more to do with her taking the role as latest and greatest political fearmonger than any show of "softness" or hubbie's rant.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Senator Clinton didn't win New Hampshire because she cried. Yet here's how the very serious cable news logic (which is on the same deductive level as, say, Pictionary) sussed out Tuesday night: Senator Clinton went all soft-serve on television; women turned out and voted for Senator Clinton; therefore all of the weak, hormonorific dames, who are suckers for a tear-jerker, won the day for the senator.

Even if the crying wasn't a calculated news cycle grabber, narrating the entire victory as some kind of romantic chick-flick represents a misogynistic low point in non-FOX cable news punditry (FOX News punditry is quarantined within its own private phantom zone of hellish awfulness).

It's a low point for punditry -- not specifically in the context of Senator Clinton herself, but much more so in terms of the women of New Hampshire -- all of them -- who were unfairly painted as easily-manipulated hooples. (I'll get into the equally creepy "every black voter in South Carolina is waiting to see how white people vote" concept some other time.)

But let's rewind here. The presidential campaign coverage has been whipping the enthusiasm out of us for more than a year now. In that interminable length of time, Senator Clinton has been widely pegged as the frontrunner.

Being a shamelessly overzealous supporter of Senator Obama, even I will concede that there's no damn way anyone, however superhuman, could realistically reverse that trend in the span of what amounted to a long weekend between Iowa and New Hampshire.

Remember that Senator Obama remained in second place in the New Hampshire polls as recently as Sunday. Zogby, for instance, didn't really show Senator Obama in the lead until Monday -- a matter of hours before Dixville Notch. Couple that with an extraordinarily popular ex-president on the ground in New Hampshire attacking Senator Obama for that entire time, and you have to wonder how in the world Senator Obama came within a miraculous 2 percentage points (and a tie in terms of delegates) on Tuesday.

But wait. There's one other catalyst in Senator Clinton's victory which I believe carried more weight than is being discussed. It definitely carried more weight than the "crying."

When I wrote my endorsement of Senator Obama last month, I noted Senator Clinton's penchant for being a little too Cheney-ish to receive my primary season support. This week, she proved me accurate when she made with the Cheney-ish fearmongering just in time to scare the White-Mountain-sized-cockadoody out of New Hampshire voters.

"I don't think it was by accident that al-Qaeda decided to test the new prime minister. They watch our elections as closely as we do, maybe more closely than some of our fellows citizens do. Let's not forget you're hiring a president not just to do what a candidate says during the election, you want a president to be there when the chips are down."
In other words, the terrorists will surely attack us if a "less experienced" president is elected. So vote for Senator Obama if you want the evildoers to kill us all.

We've heard this line before:

"If we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again -- that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States." -Vice President Dick Cheney, 9/07/04
Or...
"Whoever is elected in November faces the prospect of another terrorist attack. The question is whether or not we have the right policies in place to best protect our country. That's what the vice president said." -Cheney spokeswoman Anne Womack "clarifying" the vice president's fearmongering
We know the record. It's not just Cheney. Karl Rove, Rudy Giuliani, and President Bush himself have all engaged in this kind of manipulation -- this kind of political terrorism -- to achieve their political goals -- especially when times and polls are tough.

"Shouting 'fire!' in a movie theater" has been an effective Bush administration strategy for many more years than should have been allowed by law. And when the tide was turning against Senator Clinton this week, she inaugurated herself into the elite He-Man Fearmongers Club with what was, for me, one of the most shocking moments on the Democratic side of the campaign. She even nailed the "it's no accident" Cheney line, i.e. "it's no accident there hasn't been another attack."

In an MSNBC exit poll, New Hampshire voters were asked the usual terrorism question: "How worried are you that there will be another major terrorist attack in the United States?"

73 percent responded "very / somewhat worried."

If the Clinton campaign didn't have similar polling information in hand leading up to the senator's ooga-booga! remarks on Monday, the senator's campaign strategists weren't doing their jobs. I would be shocked if the most poll-driven political campaign in the race didn't have New Hampshire data on terrorism. Nothing is said that isn't polled for effect. That's modern politics, especially within the Clinton Loop. Without the proper intel, she never would have stood up at that Dover rally in front of live television cameras and leaned on the jolly, candy-like panic button: a vote for Senator Obama is a vote for another terrorist attack -- because the evildoers are watching!

And we're somehow expected to believe that Senator Clinton's almost-crying, voice-crackling soundbyte catapulted her to victory on Tuesday? That's rich. As much as I'd like to believe that fearmongering doesn't work anymore, it just isn't possible that the senator's "al-Qaeda is watching" toe-monster moment didn't have a more significant effect on the election results than her misty "this is very personal for me" remarks.

The too-close-to-call results from Tuesday night indicate that this whole fracas is just about to get uglier (quoting Patton: "God help me I love it so!"). And, like it or not, they're going to smack us with the Fear Stick while leaning down hard on the panic button all along the way. Just keep a mental tab of who's doing it and how. Then vote against those candidates. Make them the scaredy-cats. Al-Qaeda might be watching -- but so are we.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/senator-clintons-fearmon_b_80782.html?view=print


So, whatchoo think? Just sour grapes? Would we bitch about it if GOP'ers did it?
0 Replies
 
 

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