Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:42 pm
The most exciting race in decades would not be complete without its unexpected twists, and New Hampshire offers one on Tuesday. The state's independents may vote in either primary. Both Mr Obama and Mr McCain court them arduously. But they may only vote once; if they break for Mr Obama's hope and optimism, they abandon Mr McCain to Mr Romney. And if they break for Mr McCain's maverick streak, they may help the Democratic machine's candidate, Mrs Clinton. It would be a great irony if the quirky "Live Free Or Die State" helped one or both of the two most cautious candidates in the race."
http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10473364&top_story=1
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:43 pm
Eyep.

I'm reading a lot about the international community's overwhelmingly positive response to Obama's win. A sample from South Africa (via Andrew Sullivan):

Quote:
Damn, I love Americans. Just when you've written them off as hopeless, as a nation in decline, they turn around and do something extraordinary, which tells you why the United States of America is still the greatest nation on earth.


Sullivan's comment:

Quote:
I think the international response to Obama will shock many Americans. Because it will be so massive. A round-up coming ... stay tuned.


Haven't seen that yet (the round-up), looking forward to it.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:44 pm
Er, "eyep" was to nimh.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:48 pm
Ha, just found this (Sullivan again):

Barack Obama, this morning:

Quote:
"This feels good. It's just like I imagined it when I was talking to my kindergarten teacher,"


:-D :-D :-D
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:48 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Question: If both Obama and McCain both manage to wins in New Hampshire, then wouldn't that prove, much to the chagrin of the far Left and the far Right, that those of us in the middle really are the majority?

Yeah, see that was kinda also the background to my question.

Is Obama for "those of us in the middle", someone who's not in thrall to "the far Left"?

Or is he someone who will not "play the center", "NOT another mealy-mouthed 'moderate'", someone who will represent "the progressive wing of the party"?

I dunno, it cant be both can it? So who's Rohrshaching?


OCCOM BILL wrote:
nimh wrote:
nimh wrote:
but she does so in an especially elevated way in the South, in particular the borderlands (VA, KY, TN, MO, AR). Why there?

Sorry, I meant to add, "And why would the difference between how she and Obama fare be especially pronounced there?

I'm thinking racism, but I might be too pessimistic, and the data set is narrow..."

Less education and lower incomes there, which polls show both to be a disadvantage for Obama.

Good point! Very good point, actually - hadnt thought about that.

Actually, that could be a wild card in the general elections if and when it's Obama and Huckabee squaring off. Obama's so far turned out to be systematically more popular among those with higher education. I see Huckabee as the only Republican with a chance of significantly picking up support among the lower income groups. A match-up between them might just give a jolt to the perfect correlation between wealth and partisan preference of 2004.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:50 pm
On a more Obama-friendly note, here's a perhaps meaningful anecdote from John Deeth in the Iowa Independent today: "Clinton Understood Surface, not Spirit of Caucuses":

Quote:
[H]ow much did the efficient Team Hillary machine really get the unscripted authenticity and spontaneity of the Iowa caucuses?

After the Clinton rally last night in Iowa City, a Clinton precinct captain sighed in frustration and, insisting on anonymity, shared this story. The precinct captain's friend, a school principal, had said he was trying to choose between Clinton and Obama. He was on his way into the rally when his cell phone rang. It was Obama.

Not a campaign staffer, a volunteer, or a robo-call. It was Barack Obama himself. The personal request proved to be sufficient, as the principal pledged his support directly to the candidate, turned on his heel, and walked out of the Clinton event.

Now, we all know Iowans are spoiled, and I've heard some stories of Clinton calling individual Iowans, albeit Iowans of the elected official rank. But the Clinton precinct captain told this tale as an example of frustration with the top-down organization of the Clinton campaign. An Obama precinct captain was able to get the word up through the county and state structure that this principal, not a party activist but certainly a neighborhood leader who'd look really persuasive standing in the Obama corner at his precinct, could be persuaded by a few words from the candidate.

The Clinton campaign, in contrast, ran a cautious general election campaign in the ultimate retail environment. But like a singer with perfect pitch who misses the meaning of the song, Clinton kept errors to a minimum but failed to capture the spontaneous spirit of the caucuses. She started out doing one-on-one meetings with undecided local activists, but as her national lead held, Clinton moved toward a "general election strategy," as she said at a debate. By the time Obama was catching up in the fall, it was too late to go back and adapt.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:52 pm
I believe there are a whole lotsa Sullivans out there in the international community who are responding in similar manner. I hope those kind of report becomes more prevalent in the coming months - especially here in the US.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 06:06 pm
sozobe wrote:
Well, that's not quite what I was saying, thought that's part of it. I also just don't want that f*ck-you, no-press-conferences-because-the-press-is-evil kind of atmosphere we've had with Bush.

This kind of stuff:

Quote:
Reporters' jabs and errors are long remembered, and no hour is too odd for an angry phone call. Clinton aides are especially swift to bypass reporters and complain to top editors. "They're frightening!" says one reporter who has covered Clinton. "They don't see [reporting] as a healthy part of the process. They view this as a ruthless kill-or-be-killed game."


How much ought I to accept that this particular reporter's view matches reality?

Another question...assuming that reporter's view does match reality, to what degree is the perception described ("it's a ruthless kill or be killed game") false or true?

The Bush 2 administration attitude to the press, like the Nixon administration's attitude, and the policies or behaviors that arose from those attitudes, seem to me magnitudes less open or 'democratic' than what we saw with Bill Clinton's administration or what I think we ought to expect from Hillary's, if that happens.

Didion's Political Fictions provides a wonderful peek into the behavior (and manipulation) of the press from the very late 80's through Clinton's tenure. It's a book I can't recommend too highly. I'll type out a little excerpt here which I've pretty much pulled at random...

Quote:
On an evening late in April 1999, some 350 survivors of what they saw as a fight for the soul of the republic gathered at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington to honor Representative Henry J. Hyde and the twelve House managers who, under his leadership, had carried the charges of impeachment to the floor of the Senate. C-SPAN caught the distinctive, familial fervor of the event, which was organized to benefit the Independent Women's Forum, an organization funded in part by Richard Mellon Scaife and the "women's group" in the name of which Kenneth Starr volunteered in 1994 to file an amicus curiae brief arguing that Jones v. Clinton should go forward.

Live from the Mayflower, there on-screen were the familiar faces from the year-long entertainment that had preceded the impeachment, working the room amide the sedate din and the tinkling of glasses. There were the pretty women in country-club dinner dresses, laughing appreciatively at the bon mots of their table partners. There was the black-tie quartet, harmonizing on "Vive la, vive la, vive l'amour" and "Goodbye My Coney Island Baby" as Henry Hyde doggedly continued to spoon up his dessert, chockolate meeting mouth with metronomic regularity, his perseverance undeflected even by Bob Barr, leaning in to make a point.

The word "courage" was repeatedly invoked. Midge Decter*, a director of the Independent Women's Forum, praised Henry Hyde's "manliness," and the way in which watching "him and his merry hand" on television during the impeachment trial had caused her to recall "whole chunks" of Rudyard Kipling's "If."


spouse of Norman Podhoretz
(and of course Hyde himself had been guilty of humping some other woman while his wife was home doing dishes)

No one knows, better than the Clintons, the modern press environment that awaits any candidate who poses a threat to conservative movement power.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 06:11 pm
I have commented on the alleged racism in the South vs the rest of the country. I have no desire to get into a spitting match here with folks I respect about that. Obama, if he becomes the nominee, could do well with the higher educated and wealthier voters in the South. And I think he could do very well with the lesser educated and not so financially well off. Huckabee would get a certain segment of the vote that admire his fundamentalist Christian background or (I emphasize or) could never vote for a black candidate.
I would like to see the polls that show him doing any more poorly in the South than other recent Dems.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 06:21 pm
From NH, via TPMCafe.

Quote:

From Concord, NH: Obama's Music

By Kenneth Baer | bio

While Concord High School looks brand new (or at least recently renovated), the gym reminds me of the gym from Back to the Future: old flannel banners line the walls, lots of iron supports criss-cross the ceiling, golden wooden bleachers flank the sides. It was a slice of Americana, and today, the second stop of the Obama campaign's New Hampshire return.

Four years ago, I was in a different gym in some town in New Hampshire whose name escapes me to see that year's Iowa winner, John Kerry. Then as in now, the place was packed. Then as in now, the elite of the media elite were there (Bob Schieffer, EJ Dionne, Ron Brownstein, Maureen Dowd - who bummed a stick of Orbit off of me -- Al Hunt, Rick Hertzberg, to name a few). Then as in now, everyone went to see the conquering Midwest hero.

But the differences were stark.

First, I saw no Burberry scarves; you know the ones: tan with the distinctive tartan pattern. In 2004, it was as if I made a wrong turn and ended up in Aspen or Louisburg Square. In Concord today, the crowd was generally local; middle and upper-middle class folks who actually looked like the people you may see browsing the aisles of your local Borders or grabbing a sandwich at the Panera just off Route 93 (where I sit as I write this). Not working-class, but not many people who prepped with the candidate's cousin either.

Second, and most importantly, in 2004, Kerry was hitting the right notes - Iraq, health care, education, etc. - but had no music. In 2008, Obama has the music. His speech today, which closely mirrored what he said last night, is a coherent argument about what is wrong with America (we are divided), and what needs to change (unite and bring about change). "The size of our challenges has outgrown the capacity of our politics to deal with them," Obama said. As Roger Simon notes, Obama is inspirational. If you listen carefully you can tell the buttons he is trying to push, but unlike many other politicians' speeches of the past few years, you don't feel as if the speech was written off of the latest poll (although its contents were almost certainly tested). That is, the buttons aren't readily apparent. It's music, not a random collection of notes.

To put a finer point on it, Obama is very skillfully making his case for where we are in American history, what comes next, and why he is the person to take us there - something every presidential candidate must do. His reprised his litany from the end of last night's speech about great moments in American history where hope prevailed (the Revolution, civil rights movement, etc); which explicitly links his campaign into the sweep of American life. That's what Reagan did; it's what Bill Clinton did; and it's even what George W. Bush did. In short, it's what presidents do.

Also to Obama's credit, the speech is much more about the audience, and less about him - "I believe in you" is his explanation for why he decided to run. And unlike last night's victory speech, an address in which the "notes" were faint, today he hit the issues a bit harder. He got into some specifics about his health care plan, covered a range of issues from Darfur to CAFE standards, but he did not mention the name of one piece of legislation. As a speechwriter, I say: good for him.

Add to all of that, Obama looked comfortable up there - something that we all expect, but forget how rare it is until one sees it again in person. He opened up his speech by calling up the two young people who organized the rally, praising them, and kidding with the crowd about how he had to work as hard as they and all the organizers do. It was a very genuine moment.

Like others, I don't want to get overwhelmed with the moment and swept into the frenzy for Obama. But, from my highly predictive focus group of New Hampshire voters (the guy at the car rental desk at the airport; the elderly couple and their daughter who sat behind me at lunch; and a woman walking her dog down the block from the high school), New Hampshire has some Obamania. And from the media folks I spoke with, they feel his mo-jo; they are impressed with it; and they can't for the life of them figure out how Hillary can overcome it.


I will write more about that later.

Now, I have to go find my hotel, and then off to the 100 Club dinner in Milford where all the Democratic candidates will speak.
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Jan 4, 2008 -- 04:00 PM EST | Tags: Clinton, Hillary | Obama | Pres '08


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 06:22 pm
For anyone who missed it, wants to see the video again or wants to read the transcript of Obama's speech in Iowa last night, it just went up on his website here:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/iowavictoryspeech/
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 06:27 pm
I'm trying to find dirt on Obama and so far I can't find squat.

First thing is where is he getting his money and who does he owe favors to.

http://www.campaignmoney.com/biography/barack_obama.asp?cycle=08
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 06:30 pm
nimh wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Question: If both Obama and McCain both manage to wins in New Hampshire, then wouldn't that prove, much to the chagrin of the far Left and the far Right, that those of us in the middle really are the majority?

Yeah, see that was kinda also the background to my question.

Is Obama for "those of us in the middle", someone who's not in thrall to "the far Left"?

Or is he someone who will not "play the center", "NOT another mealy-mouthed 'moderate'", someone who will represent "the progressive wing of the party"?

I dunno, it cant be both can it? So who's Rohrshaching?
I suspect there's little chance of getting you to endorse my pragmatic doublespeak. :wink: But here goes:
Obama's ability to reach across the isle should make it possible for him to push somewhat less progressive stances than his competitors claim they'd attempt. However, the inability of his theoretically more progressive competitors to reach across that isle would result in their actual effect being less progressive.

Yes. This has an awful lot to do with Charisma. And, FWIW: I've never believed Hillary, and you know I think that other fella's an extraordinary liar; so I suspect Obama may actually be the most progressive of the three. I really don't know. While Hillary consistently speaks "more of my language", I actually believe Obama. That's how he's able to fill both voids, in my mind anyway.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 06:36 pm
This column from the Desmoines Register explains a lot of what I feel about Hillary as a candidate for this election term. For me it isn't that she's a lightening rod for sexism and tales of corruption, it is that she's just more of the same old thing that hasn't done much to improve things for the greater good of the working class.

Quote:


January 3, 2008


Basu: Obama's win spans spectrum of hopeful voters

BY REKHA BASU
THE REGISTER

Jason Casini used to be a conservative Republican. So conservative that when he was a student at Iowa and editing the college newspaper, he was the target of a protest rally.

"Racist, sexist, anti-gay, Jay Casini go away," chanted the picketing students who denounced him over positions The Daily Iowan had taken.

Casini voted for George W. Bush, both times. Until Thursday, he was a lifelong Republican. But the Des Moines lawyer, 40, registered as a Democrat to caucus for Barack Obama.

Casini is at one end of the spectrum of Obama supporters -- that of the disaffected Republican propelled to vote Democratic. At the other end are young men with whom Ako Abdul-Samad works at Creative Visions. They are neither well-heeled nor professional -- nor white. But at their first caucus, they were getting to vote for an African-American man. And the idea of such a victory stimulated hope in an unprecedented way.

Obama's caucus win is an extraordinary accomplishment on so many levels.

Even with all its money and big-name endorsements, the Clinton campaign proved to be no match for the young senator from Illinois. He dominated by pulling in first-timers from the inner city, Republicans from the business world and many in-between. And that in a state that's 90-some percent white.

What that says is that people are fed up with the status quo and long for someone who can make us feel good about America, and ourselves, again.

Mike Huckabee's win on the Republican side, ironically, says the same thing.

During the campaign, Obama showed a capacity to inspire hope at a difficult time for America. Partly that's because of his own life story and partly because he embodies youth, vigor, leadership qualities and the ability to forge a unique connection to the rest of the world.

I observed the caucus process from King Elementary School, where the voters were overwhelmingly of color and for Obama. They sat patiently through a tedious process but were good-natured and upbeat -- and thrilled with the outcome.

It's hard, though, not to feel sorry for Clinton, who seems to have been hurt less by her gender than by being associated with the Democratic Party "establishment." Voters just aren't in the mood for a legacy from either party right now.

In choosing Obama, Iowans also went for someone they think can win in the general election. Many believe both Clinton and Edwards would energize the right wing. Casini, for example, believes that if Clinton got the nomination, a lot of crossover Republicans, including himself, would "be running right back to the Republican side." Obama is the only candidate he will support all the way through the election. He believes Obama is committed to eliminating "the hyper-partisanship." It's hard to tell how many Republican voters crossed over to support Obama.

But both anecdotally, and judging from the high number of independents that the Register's Iowa Poll earlier this week found in his corner (41 percent), it's likely there were many.

And though those Republicans didn't support Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor's win is another indication Americans are fed up with the party establishment. His populist defense of the little guy contrasts sharply with Mitt Romney's aura of class privilege and entitlement. Huckabee is the "compassionate conservative" Bush claimed to be but wasn't. Where Bush is ideologically driven, Huckabee shows he follows his own conscience, even though it leads him to some extreme positions, especially his seeming willingness to eradicate the line between church and state.

He'd be unlikely to win in the general election, but he has a preacher's ability to inspire people and make them feel he really cares about them.

Finally, Thursday night closes out what has been an exhilarating run for Iowa. We had the privilege of being able to see almost every candidate multiple times, and the voters of this state took that role seriously. I'm proud of Iowans for the terrific turnout, for giving such careful consideration to the candidates and for voting their consciences. This should teach the naysayers that whatever our size and demographics, we have thoughtful, independent-minded voters who will do what they think is right.


0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 06:40 pm
Am going through my mail and posting things here that may be of interest...


Here's a list of links to New Hampshire newspapers for those interested in following things at the local level

http://www.50states.com/news/newhamp.htm
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 06:43 pm
The winners in Iowa are named Obama and Huckabee. One used chutzpah and charm to defeat the Clinton machine -- the other pitched his warmth and Baptist faith against big-money Republicanism. The race for the White House is on.

All Barack Obama has to do now is stand there. He doesn't really need the giant sign with his campaign slogan "Change" that someone has draped behind him. He just has to stand in place to exude a sense of change. He doesn't need to say anything in the giant conference center in Des Moines. His thousands of supporters gathered here would cheer him anyway.

But then Obama speaks: about a magic moment in history, and the dream of uniting America. Black and white, red and blue.

In the middle of an overwhelmingly white farming state in the heartland of the United States, a young African-American smiles broadly onstage. Three-and-a-half years ago almost no one outside Chicago knew his name. And now Obama has cleared perhaps the most important hurdle in the way of his run for the White House.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,526618,00.html
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 07:31 pm
Nice of them to warn us they'll be doing more of the same.... Rolling Eyes


http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/01/the_clinton_counter_attack.php

Quote:
The Clinton Counter Attack
04 Jan 2008 09:02 am

"Hillary is pumped up," her campaign manager, Patti Solis Doyle, said on an internal conference call late last night. "She's ready to fight. We're ready to fight."

Channeling Howard Dean, perhaps intentionally, Solis Doyle said: "We're going to fight in New York, Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia, California. This is just the beginning."

Clinton's plane(s) -- two of them -- she does not not travel with her press corps -- landed here in New Hampshire at about 4 a.m.

Here is Clinton's game plan:

1. Swarm the state with surrogates; she has a deeper network in New Hampshire than any other state.

2. Two rallies a day; lots of retail events; lots of television interviews.

3. Find some way to go negative against Obama. Some Clinton advisers and aides say that the campaign have a storehouse of opposition research -- old and new -- that they'll use against Obama. In Iowa, being directly associated with negative attacks is seen as uncouth and un-Midwestern; in New Hampshire, rude remarks as as welcome as questions and answers.

4. Claim that Clinton never had a shot in Iowa because of the state's historical bias against women (it's only one of two to never have elected a woman as governor or member of Congress); that Edwards had cornered the Democratic vote and that Obama ran against the Democratic party and cornered the Democratic leading independents; that for a New Yorker to receive 25 percent of the vote or her is impressive (although.. I distinctly remember an HRC mailing calling her a Midwesterner).

By the way: Since 1972, four of nine Democratic nominees have finished second or worse in Iowa; but those four all finished first or second in New Hampshire; the calendar was much more drawn out in those cycles.

5. Point to Clinton's strength in New York, California and Florida; point out that Obama is bad in debates and that in contests that don't rely on retail politicking, she has an edge.

6. Run against the idea of John McCain as the Republican nominee; in other words, who's better to face McCain: Clinton or Obama?

7. Women, women, women. Playing the gender card again.

8. Have really, really good debate performances.


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/01/on-second-thoug.html

Quote:
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 07:36 pm
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 07:36 pm
I have this window open and want to close it, so will choose Mark Penn's ominous rumblings about Obama's record as a segue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

"Judge Him by His Laws" by Charles Peters.

1st paragraph:

Quote:
People who complain that Barack Obama lacks experience must be unaware of his legislative achievements. One reason these accomplishments are unfamiliar is that the media have not devoted enough attention to Obama's bills and the effort required to pass them, ignoring impressive, hard evidence of his character and ability.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 07:40 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
I would like to see the polls that show him doing any more poorly in the South than other recent Dems.

I posted a series of posts in the Polls etc thread that listed all the state-level polls that were done in the past three months matching up either Hillary or Obama, or both, against at least one of the four Republican frontrunners. I might have missed one or two, but it should be pretty much comprehensive.

On the basis of the balance of polls, I accorded each hypothetical match-up (eg, Hillary vs Giuliani in Kentucky, Obama vs Romney in Missouri) a colour, representing seven different categories (safe Dem, strong Dem, lean Dem, etc). For our convenience, I followed up by posting a side-by-side overview of how the states colour up in each of the hypothetical races (Hillary vs Giuliani, Hillary vs McCain, Obama vs Romney, etc) in this post.

In the same post I then analysed for each hypothetical race in which states Hillary and Obama are doing much better (or occasionally, worse) in the polls than Kerry did in the 2004 elections. The result was that Hillary does particularly much better than Kerry across all match-ups in a host of Southern and nearby states (MO, VA, KY, TN, OK) and in some match-ups in further Southern states (AR, AL). Obama does particularly much better than Kerry across all match-ups in IA, and in most match-ups in MO and VA, but (so far) doesnt have anywhere the kind of leg-up Hillary gets in KY, TN, OK, AR or AL.

It's those findings I based myself on in the conversation here with Freeduck and Sozobe, and I posted that link here before when I first brought it up.

Now the findings do come with plenty of qualifications inherent to such a selection of polls of course, which I have given, and FD and Soz also both brought several valid points to relativate the findings. But if you "would like to see the polls" I'm talking about, I've posted the whole detailed array of them in tables in the other thread, which you said "while meaning little are pretty"...
0 Replies
 
 

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