sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 04:25 pm
Link didn't work -- the "deal-breaker" part is in my own mind, though, I think it would be a bad idea.
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 04:26 pm
Hmm...that didn't work, let me try again with the link. He has the charisma for sure.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/17/AR200
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 04:28 pm
I GIVE UP. Go to the Washington Post and it is on the front page. Something goofy going on with the link and got to cook supper!

I have been hesitant about Obama, but like him a lot. Read the article Soz and tell us what you think. Be back later.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 04:35 pm
It looks like you need to be registered, but that it's the same article that snood linked to last page.

Definitely a good article, and encouraging.
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 05:28 pm
Soz, I live in the DC area! I am registered....guess nothing is taken for granted. Sorry about the repeat....just checked in, Snood. Just thought it was more than significant since my husband ( very pessimistic about new pols on the scene) was very enthusiastic about Obama. We lived in Illinois and hear from friends there. They are cautiously optimistic about him.

Me, as a nurse, I worry about his smoking habit....he has a cigarette continually in his hand!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 06:08 pm
Heh - this is from a column of Molly Ivins in The Progressive, in which she doesnt mince words.. Laughing

Quote:
Mah fellow progressives, now is the time for all good men and women to come to the aid of the party. I don't know about you, but I have had it with the D.C. Democrats, had it with the DLC Democrats, had it with every calculating, equivocating, triangulating, straddling, hair-splitting son of a bitch up there, and that includes Hillary Rodham Clinton. [..]

I can't see a damn soul in D.C. except Russ Feingold who is even worth considering for President. [..]

As usual, the Democrats have forty good issues on their side and want to run on thirty-nine of them. Here are three they should stick to:

1) Iraq is making terrorism worse; it's a breeding ground. We need to extricate ourselves as soon as possible. We are not helping the Iraqis by staying.

2) Full public financing of campaigns so as to drive the moneylenders from the halls of Washington.

3) Single-payer health insurance.

Every Democrat I talk to is appalled at the sheer gutlessness and spinelessness of the Democratic performance. The party is still cringing at the thought of being called, ooh-ooh, "unpatriotic" by a bunch of rightwingers.

Take "unpatriotic" and shove it. How dare they do this to our country? "Unpatriotic"? These people have ruined the American military! Not to mention the economy, the middle class, and our reputation in the world. [..]

What happens now is not up to the has-beens in Washington who run this party. It is up to us. So let's get off our butts and start building a progressive movement that can block the nomination of Hillary Clinton or any other candidate who supposedly has "all the money sewed up."

I am tired of having the party nomination decided before the first primary vote is cast, tired of having the party beholden to the same old Establishment money.

We can raise our own money on the Internet, and we know it. Howard Dean raised $42 million, largely on the web, with a late start when he was running for President, and that ain't chicken feed. If we double it, it gives us the lock on the nomination. So let's go find a good candidate early and organize the **** out of our side.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 06:14 pm
Vietnamnurse wrote:
Soz, I live in the DC area! I am registered....guess nothing is taken for granted. Sorry about the repeat....just checked in, Snood. Just thought it was more than significant since my husband ( very pessimistic about new pols on the scene) was very enthusiastic about Obama. We lived in Illinois and hear from friends there. They are cautiously optimistic about him.

Me, as a nurse, I worry about his smoking habit....he has a cigarette continually in his hand!


You said you have been "hesitant" about Obama. Because of his smoking?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 06:47 pm
sozobe wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking military oomph plus who tends to like Obama now (OK, I was thinking of O'Bill), but you're totally right about lack of experience, that's a deal-breaker.
The General had a decent shot at my vote by himself. So would Obama, so the team might be too much to resist (confirming Soz's suspicion.) In a well run campaign; their combined lack of experience could be their biggest attribute. (Everyone who's happy with the Old Guard of either party, raise your hand. Idea )

Gore is largely laughed off as the fool who didn't invent the internet in my neck of the woods and would likely prove to be the proverbial lead-balloon. His biggest problem, like Hillary's, is that he sounds like a dull clod compared to Bill Clinton... who will likely have a HUGE voice in the next campaign. Frankly, I think Biden would be a better running mate, if only to get away from the glare of Bill's shine.

That being said; I don't think the Right could field a team that could defeat a good campaign by General/Obama Obama/General... unless, of course, the GOP does an about face and tips their hat towards Giuliani-McCain (the latter would be unstoppable, regardless of what happens in Iraq, IMO).
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 06:56 pm
If you had to make a prediction (like, someone put a gun to your head and asked Razz ), who do you think will win the Republican nomination, Bill?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 07:02 pm
Un-Bill says Rudy!, Rudy!, Rudy!...
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 07:06 pm
sozobe wrote:
Amigo, you mean the ones who would seriously consider voting for Obama but would rather be run over by a monster truck several dozen times before putting Gore back in the White House?


<raises hand> add Hillary to the same no-way-in-hell scenario, more so than Gore. Unless, that is, the Republicans come up with another swing towards a theocracy in which case I'd give serious consideration to joining my cousins in New Brunswick. I'm tired of voting against candidates and would give my eye teeth to be able to vote 'for' someone because I believed in their position.

O'Bill wrote:
That being said; I don't think the Right could field a team that could defeat a good campaign by General/Obama Obama/General... unless, of course, the GOP does an about face and tips their hat towards Giuliani-McCain (the latter would be unstoppable, regardless of what happens in Iraq, IMO).


I too think Giuliani-McCain would be unstoppable by any team the Dems could imagine. I'm not so sure about Clark being a shoe-in.
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 07:06 pm
Snood! No way am I hesitant about him....just say I worry! I lost two good friends to chain smoking in the last year. I am very positive about him. No hesitancy, got it? Just want him to last a long time. This man has got the charisma to move people to better things and that means a lot.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 07:14 pm
Clark did quite badly last time, wouldn't you say? And, the lack of experience thing sorta doesn't go away.

Basically, the Dems trotted out a guy in uniform for a campaign during wartime. There are some (ok, me) who think his entire candidacy was a fluke.

I think Biden is the one to watch.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 08:20 pm
Biden? D-MBNA? Never.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 08:44 pm
Loved Molly's column (except for the fact that she mentioned Russ but not Obama).

I think O'Bill was saying that the lack of experience would be a plus (whether for Obama or Clark) among people who are sick of the old guard. I actually do like someone with experience, my favorite politicians tend to be the ones who are both experienced/wonkish and charismatic (see: Bill Clinton).
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 08:55 pm
mbna?

Yeah. Re Clark, it is a cute line, but I don't think people actually vote "no experience."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 18 Jun, 2006 09:06 pm
Well, in most things, there's experience, and there's experience. Some people's experience have never helped them become good/great politicians, while others have grown in stature and productive for the people.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jun, 2006 12:56 am
sozobe wrote:
Amigo, you mean the ones who would seriously consider voting for Obama but would rather be run over by a monster truck several dozen times before putting Gore back in the White House?

Obama/ Clark, maybe. Hmm, still dunno. Have to work on the Obama part first. I really liked this part from snood's article, I so hope this is how it happens:

Quote:
"I think he is unique," said Illinois's senior senator, Richard J. Durbin (D). "I don't believe there is another candidate I've seen, or an elected official, who really has the appeal that he does." As for the 2008 presidential race, "I said to him, 'Why don't you just kind of move around Iowa and watch what happens?' I know what's going to happen. And I think it's going to rewrite the game plans in a lot of presidential candidates if he makes that decision."
I think the country is so divided right now that whoever would be ideal candidates for one half of the country are the opposite for the other. How do we make a compromise of opposites?

I think there has always been two irreconcilable Americas in which no candidate can be genuine and win the popular vote.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jun, 2006 01:20 am
nimh wrote:
If you had to make a prediction (like, someone put a gun to your head and asked Razz ), who do you think will win the Republican nomination, Bill?
I would have to say Rudy. I know they don't want to back him, but I think they want to lose even less. Frankly, I think McCain is their other best hope... and possibly the very best man for the job... but that last qualification doesn't get you elected.

But that's all assuming the Left doesn't totally shoot themselves in the foot, again. The Dems tend to totally cannon ball there chances by backing the wrong guy. I think even Frist would stand a shot against a Hillary or Gore ticket, for instance... but I'm assuming in that estimate that the more she (or he) talked, the worse they'd poll (ala John Kerry).

The General, or Obama for that matter, doesn't have the star power of the old school... and will likely fail to get the nomination. However; I think either or both would fair much better in the General election. Essentially, I think the left tends to ignore the big picture... where it's clearly depicted that they are more representative of the greater number of people... but in focusing too hard on in-fighting they ignore the fact that the true majority of Americans are neither far left, nor far right. The right constantly puts them in positions where they defend their ideals, admirably, but contrary to the beliefs of the true majority. If the right spotted them one man with the vision of Rove; they'd likely win in a land slide.

My prediction is:
The left will indeed be scary enough for the GOP to bend to a McCain or Rudy. The left won't have the balls to gamble on a new stage with an Obama or Clark, fearing that Bush's current unpopularity is their best shot at truly electing one of their own (which it is, but it won't happen). I only hope they play their cards well enough that we don't end up with the other Bush... which isn't as unlikely as many would believe.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jun, 2006 01:22 am
Lash wrote:
Re Clark, it is a cute line, but I don't think people actually vote "no experience."
Perot got 19% of the popular vote with the worst campaign stategy in history. Don't be too sure.
0 Replies
 
 

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