Obama '08?

@cicerone imposter,

I find the argument that we can't cut the military and we can't raise taxes to be ludicrous. If we don't raise taxes when we use the military we MUST borrow. There is no other way without decimating the economy when we go to war.

1 Reply

@parados,

That's because most people don't understand simple bookkeeping rules that requires more revenue than expenses to remain viable. No matter how much expenses they cut without revenues, there's always going to be a deficit.

Everybody wants government to fund our schools, government services and benefits, but nobody in the GOP-tea party wants to pay for it with their "no taxes" meme.

We are doomed!

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

It's time to raise taxes on all of us to pay for the last 8 years of war and the interest on the money borrowed for that war.

How can any "patriot" be against that?

2 Replies

@parados,

But they are (not patriots). Most in the GOP-tea party wants to bankrupt this country with the support from like-minded Americans.

"Forgive them, for they know not what they do!"

0 Replies

@parados,

The argument about raising taxes is as follows. Does, say, $1 trillion in the hands of citizens benefit the economy more than if it is in the hands of the government which can be guaranteed to use it to buy the votes of those who don't pay taxes or pay very little tax.

The answer is no if the government has no money and becomes nearer to yes the more money the government spends. The two parties buy different things with it. One buys goods and services and the other buys popularity with the lower classes of society which are numerically larger than the higher taxpayers.

I've not had time to study "the deal" yet but it fits my hypothesis that most republicans are socialists when push comes to shove on lines in the sand. It's CREEP all over again. Mr Obama is using your own money to bribe you to re-elect him. Maybe republicans have gone along because they haven't a suitable candidate.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Your argument assumes taxes are your money..

By that argument, what do you think about the Queen bribing you by paying her taxes with moneys her ancestors collected from you in taxes?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

okie

Never worry, though, that he will ever Ignore you, because as much of a "bore" and "liar" he considers you, he thinks he can better you on these threads.

Of course he can't, but he thinks he can, because unlike me you are too polite to go for the throat of a "stupid-idiot" like him.

Plus he has all of his other A2K droogs who find it great droogish sport to sneer at and gang up on okie.

Keep on keeping on okie. From time to time we disagree but usually we share the same point, and I admire your restraint. With all of the crap The Trimurti and others give you, you rarely, if ever, rise to the bait.

Interesting term trimurti, but I congratulate you on a very appropriate term for some here. Time permitting, I will keep on keeping on, Finn.

I have to tell you that one of the most fascinating experiences here has been arguing with Parados. I have found that he is virtually impervious to absorbing anything with reason, and he will defend any liberal to the hilt, no matter how bizarre and unbelievable he becomes. He has always looked for ways to trip me up, and one of his missions that he embarked upon was to prove I was lying about growing up on a farm and working for farmers, etc. As part of his mission, he started the thread, Okie knows farming, and one of his claims to upstage me was that he milked cows from the age of 7 to age 16, twice per day, and that he and his brother at ages 8 and 10 baled and stacked hay. Now, I suppose anything is possible, but I personally find this highly questionable or virtually unbelievable. I would have to go back and check if I have the ages right, as I am going from memory, but I believe I am close to what he claimed.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I think it to be really okay when someone believes to be in the right group and defends his ideas.

But when your ideas totally ignore facts, when you use your very own definitions instead of those which are generally agreed on (not only by specialists like historians but generally) ...

The fun factor of this discussion with okie is fainting.

My sincere apologies, Sir Walter. I am sorry that I have not bowed to your superior knowledge of history and politics.

Perhaps one of the places I went wrong was to mistake the labeling of Mussolini's fascism as the "Third Way," that perhaps that meant it was a combination of communism and capitalism into a third way. I should have instead consulted the history experts on the scene, such as you in Germany, Walter. Just think, if you had won the war, you could have written the history books too and would not have had to worry about ignorant hicks like me from Oklahoma of all places. Forgive me too for assuming that since I had relatives survivingthe beaches of Normandy to help preserve Europe and the world from the German tyrant, Adolf Hitler, that I should at least be entitled to express my opinion here.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

From the freedictionary.

Quote:
fascist [ˈfæʃɪst] (sometimes capital)
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) an adherent or practitioner of fascism
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any person regarded as having right-wing authoritarian views
adj also fascistic [fəˈʃɪstɪk]

Since we now know what a Fascist is, I am curious, can the experts here now tell me what is a person that has left wing authoritarian views?

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

My sincere apologies, Sir Walter. I am sorry that I have not bowed to your superior knowledge of history and politics.

Perhaps one of the places I went wrong was to mistake the labeling of Mussolini's fascism as the "Third Way," that perhaps that meant it was a combination of communism and capitalism into a third way. I should have instead consulted the history experts on the scene, such as you in Germany, Walter. Just think, if you had won the war, you could have written the history books too and would not have had to worry about ignorant hicks like me from Oklahoma of all places. Forgive me too for assuming that since I had relatives survivingthe beaches of Normandy to help preserve Europe and the world from the German tyrant, Adolf Hitler, that I should at least be entitled to express my opinion here.

I didn't choose to be born in Germany, by German parents, after WWII.
And that my father's family nearly completely died under bombs - they (and all the other Germans) should have showed more opposition to the Nazis than they did.

Of course you can have an opinion.
Perhaps, I am just more lucky to be able to read the sources.
And know perhaps just a little about history here in Europe.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

Since we now know what a Fascist is, I am curious, can the experts here now tell me what is a person that has left wing authoritarian views?

Examples could be Soviet Russia, North Korea, China ... .
Stalinism. Or 'Stalism-like Communism".

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Just think, if you had won the war, you could have written the history books too and would not have had to worry about ignorant hicks like me from Oklahoma of all places. Forgive me too for assuming that since I had relatives survivingthe beaches of Normandy to help preserve Europe and the world from the German tyrant, Adolf Hitler, that I should at least be entitled to express my opinion here.

I'm just thinking about this again, okie.

Indeed, everyone can/should/will have personal opinions about historic facts, especially when she/he is somehow closer involved in those.

But then again - these opinions don't change the facts.

When speaking about, referring to historic facts, it's usefull to speak the same language = not only use the same terms but the same meaning of those.
And that's sometimes difficult.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I'm just thinking about this again, okie.

Indeed, everyone can/should/will have personal opinions about historic facts, especially when she/he is somehow closer involved in those.

But then again - these opinions don't change the facts.

When speaking about, referring to historic facts, it's usefull to speak the same language = not only use the same terms but the same meaning of those.
And that's sometimes difficult.[/quote]Agreed. I hope I did not offend you with my sarcasm, which I sometimes reort to in an effort to make a point.

1 Reply

@okie,

No, you didn't offend me.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

okie wrote:

Since we now know what a Fascist is, I am curious, can the experts here now tell me what is a person that has left wing authoritarian views?

Examples could be Soviet Russia, North Korea, China ... .
Stalinism. Or 'Stalism-like Communism".

Thank you. One more question, Do you believe Fascist authoritarians like Hitler and Mussolini had more in common with Stalin or more in common with with moreconservative or right wing leaders like Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt? My question is not perfect because if you agree with me, you would agree that Churchill and FDR were not authoritarians or dictators.Thankfully, our representative republic form of overnment in the U.S. is not furtile ground for the rise of dictators.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Do you believe Fascist authoritarians like Hitler and Mussolini had more in common with Stalin or more in common with with moreconservative or right wing leaders like Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt?

The consequences of their politics/ideas certainly were very similar to those of Stalin (perhaps, Mussolini might be viewed a bit differently due to the "Italian situation" in general).

Besides that, I don't call neither Churchill nor Roosevelt exactly "right wing".

0 Replies

@parados,

Quote:

Your argument assumes taxes are your money..

By that argument, what do you think about the Queen bribing you by paying her taxes with moneys her ancestors collected from you in taxes?

I couldn't have been because all the money is the government's. It's a question of who is using it in what proportions.

What is money anyway? Henry Miller and Oswald Spengler had interesting things to say about that.

Our Queen is a business proposition. We bribe her.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Your bribes are working just the way the Queen wants it; laughing all the way to the bank.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I will, and if so I will apologize to you.

okie?

Okie wrote:

I don't think cyclops is too far from accurate.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

From yesterday's paper:

There are two ways of cutting a deficit: raising taxes or reducing spending.
Raising taxes means taking money from the rich. Cutting spending means taking money from the poor.

.......

So the rich, in a normal democracy, have a struggle on their hands. Somehow they must persuade the other 99% to vote against their own interests: to shrink the state, supporting spending cuts rather than tax rises. In the US they appear to be succeeding.

1 Reply

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know