Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 09:34 am
@okie,
Walter is correct- that's a bullshit graph. We can't make meaningful projections a decade in the future, let alone 50 years.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  -1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 09:44 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I agree in part, but part of the reason we are in the trouble we are in is due to government spending like a drunken sailor as if there is no tomorrow and as if the programs they devise have no consequences. For example, FDR and the Democrats apparently gave no thought to the potential impact of Social Security a few decades down the road, and apparently LBJ gave no thought to the financial bind that Medicare would lead us into. Our culture has bought into the philocophy of buy now, pay later, and even have fun now, worry about consequences later.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 09:49 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

I agree in part, but part of the reason we are in the trouble we are in is due to government spending like a drunken sailor as if there is no tomorrow and as if the programs they devise have no consequences.


I don't think this is true at all. Just a decade ago, we had a balanced budget and were paying down the debt - and would have been for the known future, if it wasn't for 2 tax cuts, 2 wars, and Medicare part D.

Unless you count 'major tax cut for the wealthy' as one of the programs devised by government, you're missing the big picture here.

Quote:
For example, FDR and the Democrats apparently gave no thought to the potential impact of Social Security a few decades down the road, and apparently LBJ gave no thought to the financial bind that Medicare would lead us into. Our culture has bought into the philocophy of buy now, pay later, and even have fun now, worry about consequences later.


Are you willing to agree that tax cuts have the same burden upon them? That the true cost of them should be taken into account before they are considered, or passed?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 09:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
This is precisely the kind of laffer curve that okie seems to dwell in; he doesn't understand that no one on this planet is able to forecast the world economy or any country's deficit in even shorter time periods.

He believes everything the conservative media spits out, because he doesn't have a brain of his own. He's become a parrot with a similar brain size.

RABEL222
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 09:54 am
@roger,
About what?
okie
 
  -1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 09:58 am
@cicerone imposter,
Can you predict what you will owe on a credit card in 20 years if you buy $100 per month that you cannot afford, and the card charges 29% interest? I would hope you would be smart enough to know the number would not be pretty, imposter. Even an approximate number would be enough to tell me not to use the credit card. Unfortunately, your Democrat Party buddies are not smart enough to figure out even the simplest of concepts like that.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 10:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Nice catch Walter. I dident notice the year part of the graph. My sight isent what it used to be.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 10:04 am
@okie,
What you would do and what is actually happening are two different issues. Thousands of people are paying double-digit interest on their credit cards, and earning less than 2% interest on their savings.

Your opinion based on what you would do has no bearing on future interest rates or returns. THAT'S A FACT.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 01:17 pm
@RABEL222,
About the cost to the government of Medicare prescription drugs, passed by Bush or whoever. You have referred to it several times, and I think we've both agreed that neither of us have seen any significant benefit. Do you know what is subsidized, what the supposed benefits are, how much it costs, and where the money goes?
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 02:11 pm


Obama needs to take a long look at Cut, Cap and Balance.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 02:15 pm
@roger,
Here seems to be a balanced reporting on Part D/drug plan approved by GW Bush.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/16/bush-drug-plan-beats-cost-mark/
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 02:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
An article from Wiki on Part D.

Quote:
Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act Great Seal of the United States.
Acronym Medicare Modernization Act or MMA
Citations
Codification
Legislative history

Introduced in the House as Medicare Prescription Drug and Modernization Act of 2003 by Representative Dennis J. Hastert on June 25, 2003
Passed the House on June 27, 2003 (216 - 215, 1 Present)
Passed the Senate on July 7, 2003 (Unanimous Consent)
Reported by the joint conference committee on November 21, 2003; agreed to by the House on November 22, 2003 (220 - 215) and by the Senate on November 25, 2003 (54 - 44)
Signed into law by President George W. Bush on December 8, 2003


The Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act[1] (also called the Medicare Modernization Act or MMA) is a federal law of the United States, enacted in 2003.[2] It produced the largest overhaul of Medicare in the public health program's 38-year history.

The MMA was signed by President George W. Bush on December 8, 2003, after passing in Congress by a close margin.[3]

[edit] Prescription drug benefit
Main article: Medicare Part D

Its most touted change is the introduction of an entitlement benefit for prescription drugs, through tax breaks and subsidies.

In the years since Medicare's creation in 1965, the role of prescription drugs in U.S. patient care has significantly increased. As new and expensive drugs have come into use, patients, particularly senior citizens for whom Medicare was designed, have found prescriptions harder to afford. The MMA is meant to address this problem.

The benefit is funded in a complex way, reflecting the diverse priorities of the lobbyists and constituencies whose support was needed:

it provides a subsidy for large employers to discourage them from eliminating private prescription coverage to retired workers (a key AARP goal; the 2005 Annual Report for IBM estimates that company will receive a $400 million subsidy during the six-year period beginning in 2006);[4]
it prohibits the Federal government from negotiating discounts with drug companies;
it prevents the government from establishing a formulary, though does not prevent private providers such as HMOs from doing so.

As of 2007, most employer sponsors had chosen to take the retiree drug subsidy and continue offering drug benefits.[5]
[edit] Basic prescription drug coverage

Beginning in 2006, a prescription drug benefit, called Medicare Part D, was made available through substantial out-of-pocket costs. Coverage is available only through insurance companies and HMOs and is voluntary.

Benefit: Enrollees will pay the following initial costs for the initial benefits described herein. A minimum monthly premium of $24.80 (premiums may vary), a $180 to $265 annual deductible, 25% (or approximate flat copay) of full drug costs up to $2,400. After this initial coverage limit is met a period commonly referred to as the "Donut Hole" begins where an enrollee may be responsible for the insurance company's negotiated price of the drug which is less than the retail price without insurance.[6] The Donut Hole ends once the enrollee has met an out-of-pocket amount of $3850, beginning the next phase of coverage. In the final coverage phase the enrollee will pay 5% of negotiated drug costs.[7]
roger
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 03:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Well, that's the most information I've had to date. So, IBM and probably all other companies that extend health insurance receive a subsidy for not eliminating coverage to retirees. That doesn't really sound like a lot of benefit for the cost if you consider that some companies would extend the benefit anyway, and that some only meet the existing COBRA requirement that retirees can carry the group insurance at their own expense for 36 months. I even suspect that many union contracts already cover the issue, so some companies are suddenly receiving government subsidy for what they were contractually obligated to provide. Could be wrong about all that, but it sounds like a significant part of that particular subsidy is paying for what we had for free. Free that is, from the government standpoint.

I do wonder if there is also some subsidy related to Part D coverage. Considering the premiums, deductables, co-pays, and limited and arbitrary formulas imposed by the insurers, I certainly hope not.

Thanks for the research.

0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 04:29 pm
Breaking News Alert: Post-ABC News poll: Obama, Republicans viewed as not willing enough to compromise on debt ceiling
July 19, 2011 6:21:26 PM

Majorities of Americans see both President Obama and congressional
Republicans as not being willing enough to compromise in their stalemated
budget negotiations, but the public sees the GOP leaders as particularly
intransigent, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News Poll.

There is also growing dissatisfaction among Republicans with the hard-line
stance of their congressional representatives: 58 percent now say their
leaders are not doing enough to strike a deal, up from 42 percent in March.

http://link.email.washingtonpost.com/r/PSLW3N/KE3NZG/NF43AJ/TXRD8K/3P2OB/1G/h<br />
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 07:59 pm
@djjd62,
How does one strike up any deal with a party that holds a gun to your head?

They are not flexible, and will not negotiate on taxes.

They will allow games to be played; this issue is not about gamesmanship, it's about our country. If they want to **** it up, I double dare them. Their threats are tiresome and not conducive for our country.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 09:14 pm
@djjd62,
Unfortunately, Democrats see compromise as giving into what they want to do. They have a weird concept of what the term "compromise" means. In my opinion, the reason we are in this mess is because the Republicans have caved too many times in the past. The time has arrived to take a stand against policies that do not seriously cut spending.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 09:15 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Unfortunately, Democrats see compromise as giving into what they want to do. They have a weird concept of what the term "compromise" means.


Is this serious?

Tell me - what have the GOP offered as part of a compromise, in this debt ceiling deal?

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 09:21 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
What have the Democrats offered in the way of serious compromise?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 09:40 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

What have the Democrats offered in the way of serious compromise?


Both parties have agreed that the limit has to be raised. So what, exactly, are the Dems supposed to be compromising with? What have the Republicans done that merits compromise? Tell me, specifically.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 19 Jul, 2011 10:06 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Sure, they compromised; they said raise taxes, and no deal.
0 Replies
 
 

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