Obama '08?

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Obama is running out of time... he needs to go.

I think the next presidential election will show him the door. However, the press, the Democrats, and George Soros will pull out all the stops to try to prevent it. "All the stops" will include corruption, including elections corruption, if we let them get away with it. All the Democrat operatives are probably in full investigative mode now to try to dig up dirt on any and all Republican candidates.

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Don't have to do much digging. Just let them open their mouths and they put their foot in it with great frequency.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Another boo-boo by okie; if social security was a private system of savings, he wouldn't have the "employer" portion of the taxes (of 6.2%). When employers have 401Ks, they do not "match" dollar for dollar any employee contribution. They're lucky to get anything, but the average is about 2% - not the 6.2% of FICA taxes.

All this assumes by okie that he would have saved more through a private savings account over social security. If he has bothered to look at jobs back in the 50's and later, most companies didn't even have 401ks.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Another boo-boo by okie; if social security was a private system of savings, he wouldn't have the "employer" portion of the taxes (of 6.2%). When employers have 401Ks, they do not "match" dollar for dollar any employee contribution. They're lucky to get anything, but the average is about 2% - not the 6.2% of FICA taxes.

You libs see economics and taxes as zero sum games. Just as you assume that raising tax rates will not impact the economy, you also assume that employers paying their required share of Social Security and Medicare for employees do not impact how much wages and benefits they can pay their employees. The fact is that when employers pay their share of Social Security and Medicare for employees, it is in practice the same as if the employees have paid that share as well as having paid their own. This simple fact seems to escape you guys, when in reality it is a very simple fact and principle. Talk to any employer, and I have been one, and they would tell you the same thing I am trying to explain to you.

Have you heard of the old adage that "corporations don't pay taxes, people do?" The principle of that truism is that taxes are merely added into the cost and price of products, so that the consumer ends up paying the taxes in higher prices for the products. Unfortunately, this is one of the reasons why so many products are manufactured in other countries where taxes are far less burdensome. Thus, our domestic policies of taxation and regulation are driving businesses offshore or completely out of business. Sadly, the Democrat's solution is to raise taxes even more on domestic businesses, and then they are so mystified as to why the economy is floundering. One has to wonder if the jokers have even one shred of common sense?

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@okie,

No, we don't! You are the only one here who sees it that way - proven repeatedly by your personal assumptions - usually wrong - about how social security taxes are "illegal," and that you would have accumulated more by personal savings for retirement. All of which has been proven wrong by many people on these boards.

Quit calling the kettle black when you don't understand the issue.

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@okie,

Agreed

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@okie,

Quote:

Have you heard of the old adage that "corporations don't pay taxes, people do?" The principle of that truism is that taxes are merely added into the cost and price of products, so that the consumer ends up paying the taxes in higher prices for the products.

That completely contradicts your argument that employees pay the taxes.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

No, we don't! You are the only one here who sees it that way - proven repeatedly by your personal assumptions - usually wrong - about how social security taxes are "illegal," and that you would have accumulated more by personal savings for retirement. All of which has been proven wrong by many people on these boards.

No, I have not been proven wrong. In fact, the numbers support what I have said. The Social Security Administration's own statement they send me shows how much money has been paid into the system for me. Are you trying to tell me that they have lied about the numbers?

In regard to Social Security taxes being legal, I do not recall ever saying they are illegal, so if you are trying to claim that I have, you are lying, imposter. What I have said is that Social Security has been essentially the same as a Ponzi scheme, wherein they rely upon new contributions to fulfill their previous promises to previous participants in the system, and I have also said they have mismanaged the money and have spent the money frivolously. I believe my statements are obviously true and I stand by them.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
Have you heard of the old adage that "corporations don't pay taxes, people do?" The principle of that truism is that taxes are merely added into the cost and price of products, so that the consumer ends up paying the taxes in higher prices for the products.

That completely contradicts your argument that employees pay the taxes.

No, there is no contradiction at all. Higher taxes on businesses essentially drives the cost of products up, plus it hinders the ability of businesses to hire more employees, leading to a lack of businesses to compete in the market. This all leads to fewer jobs in the long run, which means the employee pays very dearly for the policy, because of fewer jobs and lower paying jobs. Not only that, the products have less competition, and consumers end up paying more than they otherwise would have, plus the products overall will be of lesser quality. The obvious conclusion is that both consumers and employees suffer adversely.

All of the factors are interconnected, which is apparently a very difficult concept for liberals to grasp. I don't know whether it is basic stupidity or ignorance, or whether they have such a hatred for free enterprise and business, that it blinds them to reality? What is it in your case, imposter?

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Okie, you take the time to explain the basics in plain English and they still don't get it - amazing!

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@okie,

So.. okie.. WHO pays the FICA taxes?

If all are interconnected then any claim that YOU paid the taxes would be wrong.

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@parados,

It's not too difficult to find contradictions in anything okie says. He has myopia that leaves him open to contradictions from his own opinions. His politics is poison to him, but he doesn't realize that reality.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

So.. okie.. WHO pays the FICA taxes?

If all are interconnected then any claim that YOU paid the taxes would be wrong.

Not wrong. If the employer was not required to pay half of the taxes on the employee's behalf, the employer could have paid that amount directly to the employee. This issue actually points out and emphasizes the hypocrisy and deceitfulness of government. They want you to think the employer is paying the taxes and not costing you a dime, when in reality the employee is paying it in a round about way. After all, self employed have to pay the whole amount, so why not all employees? The answer is because politicians are crooked, they are dishonest about what they do and want you to think you are getting a free ride, when in effect it nothing close to a free ride. I think it is criminal what the government has foisted off onto the people in the name of supposedly helping us.

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@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Okie, you take the time to explain the basics in plain English and they still don't get it - amazing!

I fon't know if it is blatant stupidity or what, waterman, but they are either that or so partisan that they are simply unable to face reality.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Okie, you take the time to explain the basics in plain English and they still don't get it - amazing!

I fon't know if it is blatant stupidity or what, waterman, but they are either that or so partisan that they are simply unable to face reality.

Much like their leader...

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@okie,

okie wrote:

They want you to think the employer is paying the taxes and not costing you a dime, when in reality the employee is paying it in a round about way.

If the Democrats had been honest, when the SS and Medicare programs were put into place, they would have had the entire Social Security and Medicare contributions taken out of the employees' paychecks. Actually, it would have saved a mountain of money in administrative costs that it is costing us to collect half of it from employers. But no, as is typical of government, they wanted us to think we were getting something for nothing, and there are still people dumb enough to believe it.

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@okie,

How dumb can one person be? The self-employed pays 100% of the FICA taxes in addition to income taxes.

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@cicerone imposter,

That's what he just said.

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@roger,

But he's saying something entirely different when he talks about the employer's share vs employee's share. You don't get it.

Not paying payroll taxes is a crime whether it's paid by the employer or employee. It's not a choice.

okie wrote,

Quote:

If the Democrats had been honest, when the SS and Medicare programs were put into place, they would have had the entire Social Security and Medicare contributions taken out of the employees' paychecks. Actually, it would have saved a mountain of money in administrative costs that it is costing us to collect half of it from employers. But no, as is typical of government, they wanted us to think we were getting something for nothing, and there are still people dumb enough to believe it.

Can you prove that the democratic congress was "dishonest" when they wrote the FICA tax laws? Show me?

I'll repeat it again; most of us get more back than we paid into the program. okie claims he would have been able to gain more retirement savings if he had the money he paid into FICA - primarily social security.

If you want to defend that idiocy, you're welcome.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I don't have to defend self evident truths or common sense. They stand on their own. If you are too dumb to figure them out, that is your problem, not mine.

P. S. Would it make sense to make merchants pay the same amount of sales tax that customers pay? You would probably favor something as dumb as that too? Just think of all the money the government could rake in and spend frivolously on worthless programs!

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