Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 12:41 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

Over 12 years. His speech ended at 2:34 ET. The 1st brick will be thrown within 10 minutes, I expect.


Not by me. Great speech, he really highlighted the division between the vision of the two parties well. And what more, he happens to have most Americans on his side, per all available polling data.

Cycloptichorn
parados
 
  2  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 12:45 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:


The real disapproval numbers are actually much higher, this fact is hidden because many black
Americans say they approve of all things Obama just because his skin color is more like theirs.


What percentage of Americans are black in your world?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 12:56 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
It may have been a great speech, but it didn't provide the necessary detail on how he will cut $4 trillion from the deficit.

Currrent Federal Budget.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5103/5616575693_34a8062250_m.jpg

Where is he going to cut, and how will he increase revenue?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 12:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
He's going to increase revenue by allowing the Bush Tax cuts on the rich to expire, and by removing various deductions in the tax code- he specifically mentioned getting rid of itemized deductions for the richest 2%. In total his tax plans bring in 2T more revenue and cut about 2T from spending over the next 12 years.

Obama's critique of Ryan's 'budget' was absolutely devastating. Why the Republicans ever thought his plan would go anywhere is a mystery to me. Obama just filleted the whole idea in about three paragraphs.

Cycloptichorn
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Currrent Federal Budget.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5103/5616575693_34a8062250_m.jpg

Reductions in the red, blue, brown and yellow slices of the spending pie + tax increases on the richest folks.
I have a new printer in the van. I'll print out the speech later this evening.
One thing that caught my ear is that, in addition to saying that his plan (or any plan eventually adopted) should cut $4T over 12 years, we must achieve $1T by 2014. He seemed to suggest, as I heard it, that there would be language in whatever plan that would create a deficit commission which would make additional spending cuts to get to the $1T.
I might have misunderstood that.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:12 pm
Quote:
THE PRESIDENT'S ROUSING REJECTION OF REPUBLICAN RADICALISM.... As much as I wish this wasn't a speech he felt compelled to deliver, President Obama's speech on the nation's fiscal future was one of my favorites in a long while. It was exactly the sort of spirited defense of government and progressive values the nation desperately needed to hear right now.

There's quite a few angles to consider here, but the first is the president's take on Paul Ryan's House Republican budget plan.

Last week, when the White House was criticized from the left for not having said more about the GOP vision, I wrote about my expectations for this week's message: "I want to see a forceful, unapologetic response. I want a hearty defense of government. I want officials explaining why Paul Ryan's plan is dangerous and ridiculous."

This afternoon, in Obama's address, I got all of those things. The president emphasized early on that the Republican proposal would "lead to a fundamentally different America than the one we've known throughout our history."

Quote:
"A 70% cut in clean energy. A 25% cut in education. A 30% cut in transportation. Cuts in college Pell Grants that will grow to more than $1,000 per year. That's what they're proposing. These aren't the kind of cuts you make when you're trying to get rid of some waste or find extra savings in the budget. These aren't the kind of cuts that the Fiscal Commission proposed. These are the kind of cuts that tell us we can't afford the America we believe in. And they paint a vision of our future that's deeply pessimistic.

"It's a vision that says if our roads crumble and our bridges collapse, we can't afford to fix them. If there are bright young Americans who have the drive and the will but not the money to go to college, we can't afford to send them. Go to China and you'll see businesses opening research labs and solar facilities. South Korean children are outpacing our kids in math and science. Brazil is investing billions in new infrastructure and can run half their cars not on high-priced gasoline, but biofuels. And yet, we are presented with a vision that says the United States of America -- the greatest nation on Earth -- can't afford any of this.

"It's a vision that says America can't afford to keep the promise we've made to care for our seniors. It says that ten years from now, if you're a 65 year old who's eligible for Medicare, you should have to pay nearly $6,400 more than you would today. It says instead of guaranteed health care, you will get a voucher. And if that voucher isn't worth enough to buy insurance, tough luck -- you're on your own. Put simply, it ends Medicare as we know it.

"This is a vision that says up to 50 million Americans have to lose their health insurance in order for us to reduce the deficit. And who are those 50 million Americans? Many are someone's grandparents who wouldn't be able afford nursing home care without Medicaid. Many are poor children. Some are middle-class families who have children with autism or Down's syndrome. Some are kids with disabilities so severe that they require 24-hour care. These are the Americans we'd be telling to fend for themselves.

"Worst of all, this is a vision that says even though America can't afford to invest in education or clean energy; even though we can't afford to maintain or commitment to Medicare and Medicaid, we can somehow afford more than $1 trillion in new tax breaks for the wealthy. Think about it. In the last decade, the average income of the bottom 90% of all working Americans actually declined. Meanwhile, the top 1% saw their income rise by an average of more than a quarter of a million dollars each. And that's who needs to pay less taxes? They want to give people like me a two hundred thousand dollar tax cut that's paid for by asking thirty three seniors to each pay six thousand dollars more in health costs? That's not right, and it's not going to happen as long as I'm President."


I was especially pleased to hear the president dismiss the notion -- touted by far too many pundits -- that the Ryan plan is "serious and courageous." As the president reminded us, "There's nothing serious about a plan that claims to reduce the deficit by spending a trillion dollars on tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. There's nothing courageous about asking for sacrifice from those who can least afford it and don't have any clout on Capitol Hill. And this is not a vision of the America I know."

There were concerns among some of my fellow progressives going into this speech that the president may accept parts of the GOP plan or express some sympathies for the Republican vision. The opposite happened -- this was a full-throated condemnation, not just of the radical Paul Ryan plan, but of the far-right goals it intends to pursue.

I know many hoped to hear this message from the White House last week, but from where I sat today, it was worth the wait.
—Steve Benen 2:50 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (12)


Cycloptichorn
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:18 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Aides to Obama, according to the NYTimes say $3 in spending cuts for every $1 in revenue from increased taxes.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:20 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

Aides to Obama, according to the NYTimes say $3 in spending cuts for every $1 in revenue from increased taxes.


We'll see. Obama wisely noted that the final bill will be somewhat different than his vision.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:21 pm


Obama the whiner is in campaign mode.

His latest reading from the teleprompter was another pitiful
attempt to shrug off any personal responsibility for his actions.

Obama apologists will froth at the mouth for about an hour before
reality kicks in... this turd known as Obama needs to be flushed.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:23 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:


The real disapproval numbers are actually much higher, this fact is hidden because many black
Americans say they approve of all things Obama just because his skin color is more like theirs.


What percentage of Americans are black in your world?

Are you serious?
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:24 pm
@realjohnboy,
Wow, that speech sucked.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
If that's the case, why are the tea party and conservatives still questioning Obama's birthplace? Even Trump questions Obama's place of birth.

This is after irrefutable evidence of his birth has been shown; a) birth certificate, and b) newspaper article.


I dont believe that all conservatives, or even a majority of them, are questioning where Obama was born.
I do however, believe that it is a small, vocal minority that is questioning it and making a big deal about it.And you know as well as I do that a small vocal minority can sound like a majority.
I am on record as saying that the people questioning his birth place are being ridiculous.
Quote:

There are stupid people in this world as evidenced from this issue; another rule and regulation is not needed (period).


Thats true, there are.
They are on both sides of the political spectrum, both left and right.
The birthers on the right can be compared to the people on the left that believed the forged documents about Bush.
Even when those documents were proven to be fakes, some on the left believed them and never accepted the truth.
Contrary to the opinion of many on here, the right is not the sole home of stupid people.

Quote:
If you want to have rules and regulations for everything that doesn't need it, where do you draw the line? FYI, rules and regulations require cost to implement.


I agree completely.
I said I had mixed feelings about the proposed legislation.
While I completely understand and agree with you regarding the rule, I can also see where it would have its good side also.

I personally dont see the harm in requiring a candidate to present a certified copy of a birth certificate to a states election commission, but I can also see that there would be some cost involved.

As I said, I can see both sides of the issue.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:26 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
His latest reading from the teleprompter was another pitiful
attempt to shrug off any personal responsibility for his actions.


Can you read, whether from a teleprompter or a book? Do you dictate your short, angry ad hominem replies to a stenographer?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:26 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cyclo, You're talking about the GOP sacred cows about taxes, and cutting social services is the sacred cow for the democrats. I see big battles rather than accomplishments toward Obama's goals.

I've worked with budgets for most of my working career, and was successful in producing some accurate ones, but that's because I didn't have to "fight" with people about where the income will come from, or how our expenses will be within our anticipated revenues. I never played income or expense games; and won the confidence of my boss and board of directors.

It doesn't work that way in government; each party's sacred cows doesn't allow for compromise whether we're talking about the feds, state, or local government.

It's a sloppy way to run a "business."

Most Americans understand that the current deficit spending cannot be sustained forever, but more than half doesn't want to pay more in taxes.

Trying to cut or reduce sacred cows have been on-going since government started to collect taxes and spend.

Common sense is lacking from all deliberation on any budget.

The GOP made Planned Parenthood their target for cuts, because they accuse this organization of performing abortions. Federal law is clear; it does not allow its funds to be used for abortions, but the GOP wants to destroy health services for women by de-funding Planned Parenthood.

Private donations pay for abortions, and even then, they spend less than 3% for abortions. Over 97% is used to provide rape crisis programs, cancer screenings, adoptions, ob/gyn services, and other health services to women and men.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Warren Buffett Foundation, Ford Foundation, and other donors give to Planned Parenthood.

realjohnboy
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:28 pm
@H2O MAN,
Was that a brick? What took you so long to respond, H2O? I would have thought your response would have already been prepared before the speech.
What do you make of how many times Obama was interrupted by applause?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:29 pm
@mysteryman,
mm, It's good that you try to look at both sides of each issue; I also try, and that's all one can expect to address each issue.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

It doesn't work that way in government; each party's sacred cows doesn't allow for compromise whether we're talking about the feds, state, or local government.


Obviously compromises sometimes happen, because from time to time, taxes do in fact go up and benefits from these programs go down.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:31 pm

Tax The Rich? Good Luck With That!

By WALTER WILLIAMS

I've often said that I wish there were some humane way to get rid of the rich. If you asked why, I'd answer that getting rid of the rich would save us from distraction by leftist hustlers promoting the politics of envy.

Not having the rich to fret over might enable us to better focus our energies on what's in the best interest of the 99.99% of the rest of us. Let's look at some facts about the rich laid out by Bill Whittle citing statistics on his RealClearPolitics video "Eat the Rich."

This year, Congress will spend $3.7 trillion dollars. That turns out to be about $10 billion per day. Can we prey upon the rich to cough up the money?

According to IRS statistics, roughly 2% of U.S. households have an income of $250,000 and above. By the way, $250,000 per year hardly qualifies one as being rich. It's not even yacht and Learjet money.

All told, households earning $250,000 and above account for 25%, or $1.97 trillion, of the nearly $8 trillion of total household income. If Congress imposed a 100% tax, taking all earnings above $250,000 per year, it would yield the princely sum of $1.4 trillion. That would keep the government running for 141 days, but there's a problem because there are 224 more days left in the year.

How about corporate profits to fill the gap? Fortune 500 companies earn nearly $400 billion in profits. Since leftists think profits are little less than theft and greed, Congress might confiscate these ill-gotten gains so that they can be returned to their rightful owners.

Taking corporate profits would keep the government running for another 40 days, but that along with confiscating all income above $250,000 would only get us to the end of June. Congress must search elsewhere.

According to the Forbes 400, America has 400 billionaires with a combined net worth of $1.3 trillion. Congress could confiscate their stocks and bonds, and force them to sell their businesses, yachts, airplanes, mansions and jewelry. The problem is that after fleecing the rich of their income and net worth, and the Fortune 500 corporations of their profits, it would only get us to mid-August.

The fact of the matter is there are not enough rich people to come anywhere close to satisfying Congress' voracious spending appetite. They're going to have to go after the non-rich.

But let's stick with the rich and ask a few questions. Politicians, news media people and leftists in general entertain what economists call a zero-elasticity view of the world. That's just fancy economic jargon for a view that government can impose a tax and people will behave after the tax just as they behaved before the tax, and the only change is more government revenue.
[/quote]
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:35 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:


What do you make of how many times Obama was interrupted by applause?


The dumbmasses are easily whipped into a frenzy by good coaches and event planners.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  5  
Wed 13 Apr, 2011 01:40 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

parados wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:


The real disapproval numbers are actually much higher, this fact is hidden because many black
Americans say they approve of all things Obama just because his skin color is more like theirs.


What percentage of Americans are black in your world?

Are you serious?

Only as serious as you are. How many blacks in your world to make your statement true?
 

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