JTT
 
  0  
Mon 21 Mar, 2011 11:28 pm
@plainoldme,
Quote:
Ican wrote:The federal government manages their budgets and revenues no where near as well as do private companies.


Quote:
The grammatical disagreement between "government" and "their" is enough to sink this statement.


I don't see that government is always singular. Notionally, this has a plural sense to it. The feds have lots of departments and all those departments, part of the fed, manages their budgets and revenues in whatever manner one happens to need at the political moment.

Quote:

M-W

government

...

6 : the body of persons that constitutes the governing authority of a political unit or organization: as
a : the officials comprising the governing body of a political unit and constituting the organization as an active agency

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/government


It's grammatical. The only question that remains is is it Standard or Nonstandard?
mysteryman
 
  1  
Mon 21 Mar, 2011 11:56 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Here is an interesting article about Iraq for you to read...

http://www.slate.com/id/2288313/entry/2288310/
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 12:02 am
@mysteryman,
Be assured, mm, that I follow the situation there.

My response was about the TIME and PLANS.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 10:50 am
@JTT,
Government also means state and local governments - in addition to the feds.
JTT
 
  0  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 11:33 am
@cicerone imposter,
True dat, CI, but that particular example was limited to the federal.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 12:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Those two reasons are bogus, but it's not surprising that some of you still believe in these fairy tales.

BTW, our mass murder of innocent Iraqis with our "shock and awe" was a crime against humanity, and the illegal war that GW Bush lied to get congress' approval. You still believe in that fairy tale about WMDs in Iraq?

THESE ASSERTIONS OF YOURS, CICE, ARE FALSE!
More than 90% of the mass murders of civilians in Iraq were committed by people who were not Americans. Saddam Hussein, himself, ordered most of them before he was removed.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 12:31 pm
@ican711nm,
ican, You miss one important point; we are not the world's police. There are mass murders going on in many countries; that's not our sole problem.

Even getting involved in the Libya crisis is the wrong action for the US to participate in. UN authorization is not only fleeting, but without any muscle or authority. The Arab League and many others have already complained about "too much" civilian casualties.

You are very ignorant about world affairs.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 12:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You, Cice, miss the point you yourself raised. You accused the GWB government of mass murdereing Iraqis. Truth is, the GWB government was not guilty of mass murdering Iraqis. Truth is, murderers in the Itaqi government were guilty of mass murdering Iraqis both before and after GWB directed the 2003 invasion of Iraq..
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 01:22 pm
@ican711nm,
Yes, I did. When GW Bush used lies to get congress' approval for the war, any killing of innocent was a crime against humanity. That he chased out UN weapons inspectors to prove whether Saddam had WMDs shows he wanted to start his war without any proof.

It's not logical to start a war when there were investigations taking place to find Saddam's WMDs in Iraq.

GW Bush's shock and awe campaign was sloppy, and killed thousands of innocent Iraqis. That's not even collateral damage; it's murder.

You still miss the important point that there are other tyrants that are killing their own people. What makes Iraq and Libya more our concern?

We are not the world's police. We spend money on wars that could well be spent at home to help our own citizens during this Great Recession. Our infrastructure is falling apart, and our schools are lacking safe environments and teachers for our children.

You are too stupid to understand these fundamental realities.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  -1  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 01:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You miss one important point; we are not the world's police


I 100% agree, however the rest of the world seems not to agree.
The actions in Libya for instance.
While the rest of the world talked about action, and while the UN approved the "no fly zone" it took the US getting involved before any action was taken.
Granted, France launched the first strike, but only AFTER the US agreed to get involved.
The entire operation is being commanded by a US Navy admiral, and the command structure is almost entirely US.
If we arent the worlds police, then why did we have to get involved before any other country took action?

Also, if we arent the worlds police, and I agree we arent, why are we the worlds hospital and the worlds food source?

Why do so many countries turn to the US for aid after a natural disaster, or a famine, or medical crisis.?
They dont turn to France, or Greece, or Egypt, or any other country.
They almost always ask the US for help first.

While I agree about the US being the worlds police, it seems to me that if we arent, then we shouldnt be the first ones called on in any other type of crisis either.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 01:36 pm
@mysteryman,
No, it did not require the US to get involved. We needed to stay out of it completely. Getting involved was a lose-lose choice.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 01:37 pm
@mysteryman,
There is also a big difference between helping humanity vs wars.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 02:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
There is a bigger difference between helping humanity and not helping humanity.

Sometimes fighting a war is more help to humanity than not fighting a war and sometimes it is not.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 02:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Agreed.
My point was simply that the same people that demand our help when they want it, are the same ones that blame us for gettiung involved.

It just seems to me that they shouldnt be able to have it both ways.

Let me make it perfectly clear, we SHOULD NOT be involved in Libya in any way.
We have no dog in the fight, its a civil war.
By "protecting civilians" we have put ourselves in a very precarious position.
How do you tell civilians from rebel soldiers?
As I understand it, the rebels are not wearing uniforms, so if one of them decides to put his weapon down, he becomes a civilian.
Does that mean he is no longer a rebel, or does that mean he is simply taking a short break from the fighting to get some R&R?
We have gotten involved in a civil war, and no matter which side wins, we still lose.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 02:18 pm
@ican711nm,
No, you are totally confused. The only time war is justified is when we are attacked. It's called self-defense. There is no reason why we need to have the biggest military on this planet that far exceeds the combined military of all other countries. That's called 'over-kill,' and foolish spending of our limited resources.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 02:21 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

My point was simply that the same people that demand our help when they want it, are the same ones that blame us for gettiung involved.

It just seems to me that they shouldnt be able to have it both ways.


Could you please verify your "they shouldn't be able to have it both ways"?

What does this mean in Iraq, in Afghanistan?


(And how did you - since you've been there - "tell civilians from rebel soldiers"?)
mysteryman
 
  1  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 02:28 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
(And how did you - since you've been there - "tell civilians from rebel soldiers"?)


If they carried a gun and pointed it it me, they were the enemy.
If they tried to shoot me, they were the enemy.

That makes it real simple to figure out who is or isnt the enemy.

Quote:
Could you please verify your "they shouldn't be able to have it both ways"?



If your country is in such bad shape that you need me to give you food, medicine, or any other type of aid, then you shouldnt then be able to turn around and blame me for getting involved.

JTT
 
  1  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 03:22 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
If your country is in such bad shape that you need me to give you food, medicine, or any other type of aid, then you shouldnt then be able to turn around and blame me for getting involved.


You are so delusional, MM, how do you make it through a day.

Iraq was doing just fine until you fuckin' assholes wrecked the country, killed half a million kids, launched two illegal military actions against, oh hell, let's let Layla tell you how you are vomiting the same perfidious bullshit as your government.

Quote:
SEPTEMBER 2, 2010

Vomiting Perfidy.

Layla Anwar

Since yesterday I have been vomiting my insides out...

My first bout of vomit came after I read a transcript of your President's speech, his speech to the "nation". Because you consider yourselves a nation ?!

It started off with an uneasiness felt in the pit of my stomach, then quickly transformed itself into a queasiness, then into a foul nausea, only to erupt like a dammed out volcano into violent throes of pure vomit...

I have over the past 20 years or so, developed a high intolerance to perfidy and you throughout your history have excelled in perfecting what I am most allergic to...

You literally make me sick.

Change - you clamored like a herd of sheep, while munching, ruminating like cattle every word that is fed to you...Black and White, even those retards who call themselves American Arabs and Muslims rejoiced at Uncle Tom's arrival to the White House.

Oh the "principled", "moralistic" prudish puritanical perverts called Americans, always showing up late for change...always jumping on the bandwagon, when the train has already passed...

The peace loving war mongers of the new world order is what you are. Fake and ignorant to the bone.

So you pride yourselves on being "a good people", a "compassionate" "sharing caring hugging" people -- nothing but Perfidy.

For 20 years, I witnessed my country, the land of my father, my mother, my ancestors, disintegrate before my very eyes...20 ******* years. 20 ******* years.

Twenty years of people -- first withering, wilting away, like flowers never allowed to see the light, never allowed to turn their faces to the sun, then from fading into shadows, faltering into a colorless background...bombed, massacred, slaughtered into a nothingness...the same nothingness that inhabits you daily...the same nothingness that makes you rush to your shrink, the same nothingness that you feed with your junk, the same nothingness that you fill with your consumer products...the same nothingness of your void, of the pit, the deep pit that you all live in, and I throw up some more, from the pits of my belly....

So you "sacrificed" for us, so you liberated us from "tyranny", so you "lived up to your responsibilities" --- like you did in Falluja, Haditha, Mahmoudiya, Baghdad, Basra, Mosul, Ramadi...ยจ"kill the motherfuckers" you shouted...and your wives masturbated to your love letters, or shed a few tears while waving that infamous flag...the flag of a degenerate, decaying country that has offered nothing but murder, carnage and mayhem...

You liberated us from "dictatorship" with 5 times the size of a Hiroshima and a Nagasaki...you liberated us until there was no space left in our morgues, and 7 and half years later, we still search for the dead...you liberated us until our streets turned into pools of blood, and mosques became torture dungeons where those hajjis were having their eyes plucked out and their flesh drilled, you liberated us so we can be abducted, raped and murdered for a 1000$ or for wearing lipstick...you liberated us so our bodies can float on the Tigris and Euphrates, mutilated unrecognizable...you liberated us alright...stuffing us in prisons cells, covering us with your piss and excrements, or handing us to your mercenaries and your pimps and whores in turbans, while you fucked the prostitutes specially brought to you in your Green Fortress... and while the rest of us lived in walled ghettos that you constructed for us...

You liberated us alright...and you lived up to your principles, your ideals and your responsibilities...

But I do grant you one thing, you computerized, digitalized death for us...you see, thanks to you our morgue is now equipped with the latest technology, so 7 years down the line, we can finally go and find the corpse of a loved one, maybe. We even got numbers, serial numbers, you are serial killers and we get serial numbers...

We carry numbers wherever we go, number on our passports, on our ID cards, on our prison bracelets, and even on our dead bodies...the numbers follow us to the cemeteries, we got plenty of them today...all this reconstruction money, we built cemeteries with...well not quite, you stole the money...billions of dollars, so we turned gardens and parks into graveyards...our children play there, amidst the wailing of mothers in perpetual grief...

You are indeed a brave people...a noble, brave people. See, all what you've done for us! Your generosity will be recorded in history annals...and you will be used as a historical example, a model of a country and a people of great integrity -- just like the New Iraq model.

Those of us who could not handle this overflowing compassion from you (as your stinking alternative press likes us to believe - Americans are compassionate people), flew away...escaped the milk of human kindness, carrying a few documents and memories, wounds and scars stacked in suitcases...with no destination...

A permanent exile has become our abode...a new geographical location not found on any map...carrying our selves like some overburdening, heavy bundle, struggling to make ends meet, struggling to survive, struggling not to become insane, struggling not be engulfed by that nothingness of yours...

Scratching humanity with our nails...trying to find it, digging with our bare hands, sometimes wishing that we were buried there, alongside our loved ones...sometimes wishing we were never born, sometimes crying in our solitude, sometimes screaming in our nightmares, sometimes numbing ourselves so we can match your nothingness...

Most of the time, confused, lost and bewildered...still unable to grasp what has befallen us, in the name of Freedom...other times engrossed with story after story of endless suffering and misery inflicted by you...with stories of relatives and friends lost in dungeons of Democracy, with stories of monsters being born in the land of Freedom, with stories of disease and illnesses nesting into our DNA and becoming part of our make up, of our being...infiltrating the very essence of us, of our soil, our air, our water...

Story after story...image after image -- wheelchairs, amputations, limbs lost, eyes lost, fingers lost, a child dying, a woman raped and killed, a man tortured to death...story after story of -- poverty, disease, need, neglect, abandonment...story after story of an eternal fatigue that has settled upon us like a blanket...

I watch in my head, in my imagination, in my memory, the river Tigris flowing on a summer eve right at sunset...when the air is cooler (and when there was electricity and drinking water), I watch the river flow, calmly, silently, peacefully...nothing obstructs it, it just flows and I close my eyes and imagine myself flowing with it, in it...to an unknown destination...only in these moments do I find real tranquility...during those seconds, when I am transported there, by that river where everything grew and took shape...from the dawn of Time...

I go back in time thousands of years, when you were non existent, when you had no name, no shape and no color...and I find myself...I find myself and I find Iraq.

This is the only consolation I can give to myself - that even in the buckets of vomit wrought out from my guts, I can still find Her and me.

But you can't.

http://arabwomanblues.blogspot.com/2010/09/vomiting-perfidy.html




okie
 
  0  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 05:32 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
You are so delusional, MM, how do you make it through a day.
JTT calls MM delusional, ha ha. Isn't this forum fun??
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 22 Mar, 2011 05:48 pm
@okie,
Yes, it's fun, because you live with the same delusions.
0 Replies
 
 

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