Obama '08?

This thread has merged with the thread on the economy and the one on conservatism so that the three are difficult to separate in terms of content.

okie, who is wrong about everything, posted something about homosexuality in the past week. It was a statement against gay marriage. I knew it was wrong when he posted it, but, did not comment. I'm trying to ignore some of our more vocal righties, only replying to them when they are at their most outrageous.

I'm a Medievalist by training and belong to one academic group devoted to the study of the period. I also subscribe to www.medievalists.net.

Bruce Verdarde's review of the latest book by John Boswell, Salvation, Sex and Subjectivity, appears on medievalists.net. It opens with an acknowledgment of Boswell's earlier work, which I have never read as that is not my field of interest. However, the paragraph proves okie wrong:

In 1980, John Boswell published Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality. It was considered a groundbreaking work in the history of homosexuality. It argued that male/male eroticism was not condemned, but was even celebrated, until the later Middle Ages (around the 13th century). Boswell’s view had (sic) many critics who argued that homosexuality as an awareness of sexual love did not exist until the 19th century. Sex between men prior to the medieval period was primary (sic) about acculturation and dominance, much as in the time of the ancient Greeks.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Alexander the "Great" was a homosexual.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

I wouldn't be surprised. The Greeks -- or, at least, the upper classes -- thought that it was wrong for a man to be too involved with his wife. Wives were for procreation, not sexual recreation. The Greeks actually were big on moderation. Young men in the schools, who sat on the ground, would smooth the earth to erase the impression their genitalia made so as not to cause excessive reaction in their male lovers. According to Gregory Nagy, even the worship/festivals of Dionysus involved moderation as a theme.

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@cicerone imposter,

Let: 3%USSB = 3% US Savings Bonds

Social Security Deduction Factor = 0.124
Average Annual Gross Income = $6,250.00
Average Annual Social Security Deduction for 44 years = $775.00
Average Annual Payment TO 3%USSB for 44 years = $775.00
Average Annual Payment FROM 3%USSB for 35 years = $3,211.79
(that is, 4.144249736 x $775.00 = $3,211.79)
Average Annual Payment FROM Social Security for 35 years = $2,451.00
DIFFERENCE = $760.79

Social Security Deduction Factor = 0.124
Average Annual Gross Income = $12,500.00
Average Annual Social Security Deduction for 44 years = $1,550.00
Average Annual Payment TO 3%USSB for 44 years = $1,550.00
Average Annual Payment FROM 3%USSB for 35 years = $6,423.59
(that is, 4.144249736 x $1,550.00 = $6,423.59)
Average Annual Payment FROM Social Security for 35 years = $4,902.00
DIFFERENCE = $1,521.59

Social Security Deduction Factor = 0.124
Average Annual Gross Income = $25,000.00
Average Annual Social Security Deduction for 44 years = $3,100.00
Average Annual Payment TO 3%USSB for 44 years = $3,100.00
Average Annual Payment FROM 3%USSB for 35 years = $12,847.17
(that is, 4.144249736 x $3,100.00 = $12,847.17 )
Average Annual Payment FROM Social Security for 35 years = $9,804.00
DIFFERENCE = $3,043.17

Social Security Deduction Factor = 0.124
Average Annual Gross Income = $50,000.00
Average Annual Social Security Deduction for 44 years = $6,200.00
Average Annual Payment TO 3%USSB for 44 years = $6,200.00
Average Annual Payment FROM 3%USSB for 35 years = $25,694.35
(that is, 4.144249736 x $6,200.00 = $25,694.35)
Average Annual Payment FROM Social Security for 35 years = $19,608.00
DIFFERENCE = $6,086.35

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Social Security payments to you stop when you die (actually the month before the month in which you die) rergardless of what you want to leave to your heirs (e.g., your children).

Payments from 3% US Savings Bonds to you or your heirs (e.g., your children) stop when all the Bonds are cashed-in. My calculations were based on them all being cashed-in in equal annual amounts over 35 years after you were age 65 (i.e., your age 100), regardless of when you actually die.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

No, no, I didn't say that. I even said that 23 percent of the gay vote went Republican in the off-year Congressional elections. I was simply responding to your response to RABEL222. I may have misunderstood what you were saying to him/her. Wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood someone online. Whatever, it's no big deal. Smile

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

You haven't corrected any of your original mistakes ican and now you only compound them with more mistakes.

See my post here
http://able2know.org/topic/71145-1961#post-4528965

Now..

Quote:

Social Security Deduction Factor = 0.124 Current SS only tax is 10.6%
Average Annual Gross Income = $6,250.00
Average Annual Social Security Deduction for 44 years = $775.00 Max contributions have only been greater than $775 for the last 37 years. Math is wrong using 12.4% for every year. Most of those years was less than 10% SS payment.
Average Annual Payment TO 3%USSB for 44 years = $775.00
Average Annual Payment FROM 3%USSB for 35 years = $3,211.79
(that is, 4.144249736 x $775.00 = $3,211.79)
Average Annual Payment FROM Social Security for 35 years = $2,451.00 Fails to account for COLA adjustments in payouts
DIFFERENCE = $760.79 Fails to account for increase in yearly SS vs the never changing yearly payment from USSB.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

Social Security Deduction Factor = 0.124 Current SS only tax is 10.6%
Average Annual Gross Income = $6,250.00
Average Annual Social Security Deduction for 44 years = $775.00 Max contributions have only been greater than $775 for the last 37 years. Math is wrong using 12.4% for every year. Most of those years was less than 10% SS payment.
Average Annual Payment TO 3%USSB for 44 years = $775.00
Average Annual Payment FROM 3%USSB for 35 years = $3,211.79
(that is, 4.144249736 x $775.00 = $3,211.79)
Average Annual Payment FROM Social Security for 35 years = $2,451.00 Fails to account for COLA adjustments in payouts
DIFFERENCE = $760.79 Fails to account for increase in yearly SS vs the never changing yearly payment from USSB.

Parados, as my basis, I used the current annual social security payment to me of $19,608 as if I had been receiving that since I was 65. I actually have been receiving less each prior year up to the previous year. I used what was my calculation of what a 3% annual return would be if I had invested for 44 years the same annual payment that I made to social security during the year I was 65.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Quote:

Parados, as my basis, I used the current annual social security payment to me of $19,608 as if I had been receiving that since I was 65. I actually have been receiving less each prior year up to the previous year.

You weren't receiving the same amount every year and yet you calculated your numbers as if you would for the 35? That is lying on your part ican to lower the number to try to bolster your argument.

Quote:

I used what was my calculation of what a 3% annual return would be if I had invested for 44 years the same annual payment that I made to social security during the year I was 65

No, you weren't using what you paid into social security. You use a number that far exceeds the max amount that you could have paid in for 20 of those years. Again, it is lying on your part to raise the number of your investment to try to bolster your argument.

SO..
You claim you would have more money if you had invested your social security dollars.
BUT
You reduce the amount social security will pay you over your retirement
AND
increase the amount you would have invested.

You are either stupid or a liar. But one thing is certain, your numbers in no way reflect the actual numbers for investment or social security benefits.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Quote:

Social Security payments to you stop when you die

Is this meant to be a statement of the obvious? How does it have anything at all to do with the chart I posted, which, unlike your postings, is relevant and correct?

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@parados,

Actually, social security benefits were frozen for 2010 and 2011; but our actual benefit dropped by $2 in 2010 because Mediare deductions went up by that amount.

0 Replies

@wmwcjr,

That's cool.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Who are the 'Great' lesbians in history?

0 Replies

@MontereyJack,

Thank you, Jack, for pointing that out to hawkeye. Jeez Louise!

I spoke of a gay friend of the family, someone I have known since he was five years old when he and my daughter started kindergarten together. The next summer, his family and four others (one of which moved out of state shortly thereafter because of a job offer) became our closest friends in town. All the kids took swimming lessons and the mothers spread our blankets next to each other at the beach.

All three of my kids are friends with this man and his sister. I am still in communication with him and his parents.

As for hawkeye's statement that one can only speak for one's significant other, I totally disagree.

0 Replies

@parados,

Not only can he not make that claim, Robert Reich has demonstrated that the rich -- like our own okie, and, apparently, ican -- do not pay the amount into SS that they should.

0 Replies

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182930_10150105252944776_758674775_6120496_7238606_n.jpg

1 Reply

According to the U.S. Code Title 26.3101, any wages earned after 1990 are taxed 6.2 percent for Social Security every pay period. For self-employed individuals, this rate is a much higher at 12.4 percent.
6.2 or 12.4

The standard medicare deduction for wages earned after 1990 is 1.45 percent. Once again, self-employed individuals pay more by having 2.9 percent paid for Medicare.
1.45 or 2.9

Add the Social Security total to the medicare total and you come up with your total FICA deduction, which is a 7.65 percent deduction from every paycheck or 15.3 percent for the self-employed.
7.65 or 15.3

http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=altavista&itag=ody&q=social+security+income&kgs=1&kls=0

2 Replies

@ican711nm,

Ican,

How do you account for the taxes you will have to pay on the income from your Bonds when you cash them in, in your scenario?

Cycloptihcorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

That's an easy question to answer.

Replace social security with a TAX FREE 3%USSB investment program.

AGAIN!

Quote:

http://www.ehow.com/how_6196104_calculate-fica-deductions.html

How to Calculate FICA Deductions
Instructions
1
Know that Social Security taxes are set at a certain rate depending on the years you earned income. According to the U.S. Code Title 26.3101, any wages earned after 1990 are taxed 6.2 percent for Social Security every pay period. For self-employed individuals, this rate is a much higher at 12.4 percent.

2
Understand that Medicare is also a set percentage of your check. The standard medicare deduction for wages earned after 1990 is 1.45 percent. Once again, self-employed individuals pay more by having 2.9 percent paid for Medicare.

3
Add the Social Security total to the medicare total and you come up with your total FICA deduction, which is a 7.65 percent deduction from every paycheck or 15.3 percent for the self-employed.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Oh, I see! You didn't account for those taxes, and your calculation instead relies upon major changes to the tax code.

You're full of ****. Your projections not only use bad math, they make false assumptions (as Parados pointed out) and require major changes to our current structure. Your claim that you could have done better by investing your SS funds in US Savings Bonds is a lie. It has been shown to be 100% false.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

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