ican711nm
 
  2  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 02:13 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Let's make an analogy about your claim about Fannie.

Okie built a toilet with the express opinion that it would have **** in it. Because okie built that toilet in his house that means that all the **** in the world is in okies house.

Simply because Fannie and Freddie were created for a purpose doesn't mean they bought all the loans anymore than your having a toilet means you have all the **** in the world. (Although the way you sling ****, one could think you do have a lot of it.)

That is a stupid analogy!
Fannie and Freddie both bought and motivated a large majority of poorly financed home loans, so that means Fannie and Freddie were major contributors to the current USA depression.

Filling your toilet with most but not all of your neighbor's ****, causes your toilet and/or sewage system to cease functioning.


cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 02:56 pm
@ican711nm,
From the WSJ:
Quote:
Posts Tagged ‘The Great Recession’
Financial Meltdown Was ‘Avoidable’ Says Inquiry
Wednesday, January 26th, 2011

Published by the New York Times:

It’s how ironic it took the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission 3 years to determine what caused the Financial Meltdown and if it was preventable. I’ve been stressing that loose lending laws created by in small part by the Clinton administration of “The Home Affordable Act” which paved the way for the excessive Sub-prime market as well as the excessive lack of policies set by the Bush Administration and Greenspan. Was this preventable, absolutely. When Bernanke was asked in 2006 and 2007 if we’ll see a housing crash, he stated it was contained. Lets not also forget the underwriters and rating agencies had a hand in this. Well, we know the end result subsequent to that remark. Lehman Bro. faltered and almost followed through with The Great Depression II. We need our elected officials to take a proactive approach. Many were hurt during this crisis. Approximately 10 million people have lost their jobs. In the end I hope something of great fortune comes to world after this crisis.


If you have been reading my posts on Greenspan and Bernanke, you would know that I had nothing good to say about these two chairmen of the feds.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 03:00 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Still waiting on the answers to the questions I posed for you, Okie.

Cycloptichorn
JTT
 
  0  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 03:56 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That has got to be the most thankless of jobs. Really, none of them know what the hell they are doing anyway. Economies are going to go up, sometimes spectacularly, and sometimes they are going to tank, even more spectacularly.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 04:33 pm
@JTT,
That's right~! One of the reasons for the financial crisis under Greenspan was his policy on keeping interest very low. That only exacerbated the speculators to use that money to buy property that seemed to see no end in its appreciation.

I remember reading many of the so-called financial experts who saw Greenspan as a god.

We all know what happened.
okie
 
  0  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 05:56 pm
@H2O MAN,
Interesting, H2OMAN.
Here is another link to the news story: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/02/has-obama-quit-smoking/70950/
"Has President Obama quit smoking?
First lady Michelle Obama told reporters on Tuesday that her husband has finally done it and hasn't inhaled for a year."


But do you remember Clinton claiming he smoked marijuana, but didn't inhale? Hopefully, this is not another case of Michelle parsing words in regard to her husband smoking tobacco cigarettes?
If he has truly kicked the habit, my congratulations to him in defeating one of his personal demons.

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 06:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
That's right~! One of the reasons for the financial crisis under Greenspan was his policy on keeping interest very low. That only exacerbated the speculators to use that money to buy property that seemed to see no end in its appreciation.

I remember reading many of the so-called financial experts who saw Greenspan as a god.

We all know what happened.
It doesn't look like Bernanke is doing anything different, in fact the rates are as low or lower than ever. Do we have any choice, ci, considering we are up to our eyeballs in debt and the economy is on the rocks? What is your opinion?
http://www.moneycafe.com/library/ratecharts/ratecharts18.gif
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 06:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
If you have been reading my posts on Greenspan and Bernanke, you would know that I had nothing good to say about these two chairmen of the feds.

If you had been reading my posts you would know the following:
]
Congress was repeatedly informed in advance about the pending decline of the USA's finance industry being caused by Fannie & Freddie, but repeatedly refused to do anything about fixing it.
Quote:

1977
President Carter signs into law CRA (i.e., Community Investment Act) Carter.
Mandates banks invest in poor urban areas.

1991
Home Mortgage Disclosure Act is expanded to compares rejection rates by race.

1995
Clinton changes CRA to require banks provide mortgages to their poorer communities.

1998
Janet Reno declares that since inception of 1992 fair lending initiative, Justice Department has filed 13 major fair lending lawsuits.

2001
*04/….—President Bush declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is a potential large financial problem because financial trouble of a large "GSE (i.e., Government Sponsored Enterprise) could cause strong repercussions in financial markets."

2003
*01/22—Freddie Mac announces it must restate financial results for the previous 3 years due to earnings report errors.
*06/11—Freddie Mac is the subject of federal securities and criminal investigations.
*09/11—New York Times says, "President Bush recommends the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."
*09/25--Barney Frank responds, "Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac do very good work, and they are not endangering the fiscal health of this country … I believe there has been more alarm raised about potential unsafety and unsoundness than, in fact, exists."
*10/29—Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

2004
*06/16—Samuel Bodman, Deputy Secretary of Treasury, repeats President Bush Administration call "for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System.
*10/06—Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae CEO, testifies before the House Financial Services Committee, "assets are so riskless that the capital for holding them should be under two percent. "

2006
*04/18—Freddie Mac pays a record $3.8 million Federal Election Commission fine.
*05/23—Fannie Mae’s regulator announces that Fannie Mae has for years overstated reported income and capital by $10.6 billion.
*05/25—Senator John McCain calls for GSE regulatory reform legislation, warning: "If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system and the economy as a whole.”
*11/07—Democrats win majorities in both houses of Congress. The U.S. economy is growing at about 3 percent, unemployment is at 4.5 percent, and inflation under 2 percent.

2007
*06/23—Two Bear Sterns hedge fund groups collapse due to their mortgage investments.
*08/09— President Bush requests Congress pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*12/06—President Bush warns Congress of need to pass legislation reforming GSEs.

2008
*03/14—J.P. Morgan and the Federal Reserve recognize extent of Bear’s toxic assets, including sub-prime mortgages, and credit default swaps, and interconnection with other banks.
*03/14—At Economic Club of New York, President Bush requests Congress take action and reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*04/14—President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/03—President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/19—President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*05/31—President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*06/06—President Bush issues a plea to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

*07/11—Senator Chris Dodd says: "There’s sort of a panic going on today, and that’s not what ought to be. The facts don’t warrant that reaction, in my opinion … Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were never bottom feeders in the residential mortgage market. People ought to feel comfortable about that. "
*07/13—Treasury Secretary Paulson asks Congress to grant him authority to take over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
*09/07—Paulson takes over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and offers them $200 billion, despite the fact their government credit line had been limited to $25 billion.
*09/15—Lehman Brothers officially collapses, the government does not intervene, and panic occurs, triggering a big Dow decline.
*09/16—Nancy Pelosi is asked if the Democrats bear some responsibility for the current crisis on Wall Street. Pelosi answers, "No. "
*09/17—Harry Reid regarding the economic collapse: "No one knows what to do."
*09/18—About 11:00 AM, the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States within two hours, equal to about $550 bilion. Treasury puts $105 billion in the system, but quickly realizes it cannot correct the problem.
*09/18—Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke ask Congress for the required funds—and unprecedented authority to bail out the entire financial system. They say failure to act means "we may not have an economy on Monday."
*09/23— Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke in Senate Banking Committee testimony outline the $700 billion asset relief program (TARP).
*09/29—That TARP version doesn’t pass the Democrat-controlled House of Representatives.
*10/03—Three days later TARP is passed after about $112 billion is added.
*11/05—The day after Barack Obama’s election, stocks plunge 500 points.
*11/12—Paulson changes the TARP rules from purchasing "troubled assets" to buying bank stocks to spur lending.
*11/23—Paulson gives Citibank a $308 billion bailout.
*12/06—Both houses of Congress agree to bail out the U.S. auto companies.
*12/18—President-elect Obama hints at an $800 billion to $1 trillion stimulus plan within his first month of office, and the Dow drops another 2.5 percent.

2009
*02/10—Treasury Secretary Tim Geitner unveils the Administration’s $2 trillion TARP II plan, and the Dow drops 382 points, or 4.6 percent
*02/17—President Obama signs a $787 billion bailout bill.
*02/18— President Obama reveals his mortgage bailout plan.
*02/19—Rick Santelli says in an impromptu speech on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange: "The government is promoting bad behavior … How many of you people want to pay for your neighbor’s mortgage? President Obama are you listening?" Santelli calls for a "Chicago Tea Party."
*02/20—The market falls as Chris Dodd, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee floats the idea of nationalizing the nation’s banks. The White House issues a denial, and the Dow ends down 100 points. The Dow is down now more than 800 points—nearly 10 percent—from the day before President Obama’s inauguration.
*02/21—Soros says, "The financial crisis marks end of a free-market model."

You, of course should already "know the rest of the story."

Congress including Senator Obama were repeatedly informed in advance about the pending decline of the USA's finance industry being caused by Fannie & Freddie, but repeatedly refused to do anything about fixing it. Also, after he was elected President, Barack Obama continued to refuse to do anything about fixing it.

okie
 
  1  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 06:29 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:
Quote:

Congress including Senator Obama were repeatedly informed in advance about the pending decline of the USA's finance industry being caused by Fannie & Freddie, but repeatedly refused to do anything about fixing it. Also, after he was elected President, Barack Obama continued to refuse to do anything about fixing it.
Look for taxpayers to be on the hook for more tens of billions, maybe hundreds of billions more in the future, ican.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 07:00 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Still waiting on the answers to the questions I posed for you, Okie.
Cycloptichorn
Why should I answer your questions when you don't answer mine? To tell you the truth, I forgot what your questions were, and I would have a tough time even being interested to know what they were. You can try me if you want, by posting them again, and I might consider answering, provided you answer one or two of mine.
parados
 
  1  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 07:44 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
That is a stupid analogy!
Fannie and Freddie both bought and motivated a large majority of poorly financed home loans, so that means Fannie and Freddie were major contributors to the current USA depression.

I see you are trying to prove you have all the **** in the world.

Are you now backing away from you claim that Fannie and Freddie GUARANTEED to buy every loan? Because that is why your argument was shitty and your toilet should hold all the **** in the world if you think Fannie and Freddi were going to buy every single loan.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 9 Feb, 2011 08:13 pm
@ican711nm,
ican, It wasn't fannie and freddie that caused the financial crisis. You'll never understand this topic, and what you think are the reasons behind the Great Recession will never infiltrate your brain.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Thu 10 Feb, 2011 09:02 am
Our resident conservative drum beaters, with their far less than subtle minds and their fish-like memories of history, fail to go back far enough in time to analyze the housing finance crisis.

They should go to the library and borrow a copy of Paper Money by "Adam Smith," aka George Goodman.

They should also realize that the US is a nation-state: state refers to the geographic and political entity but nation means the ethnic and/or cultural component.

In terms of culture, the US is a land of home ownership and always was. As home ownership is rooted in the culture, it was easy for it to become a component of the economy and any and all components of the economy soon become exploited. Home ownership was exploited.

Goodman, also known as Adam Smith, discusses how our financial institutions realized that houses could be a source of profit. There was no need to pay off a mortgage.

What intensified the housing problem was the high divorce rate. Dancing around 50%, but often higher, the divorce rate meant that families lived in not one but two homes. The second home was not the camp on a lake in a rural area. Mom lived in one house and Dad in another.

That sort of reality totally escapes the okie-ican tag team. They can not analyze.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Thu 10 Feb, 2011 10:10 am
Nn = National Government!

WTF?

http://boortz.com/images/2011/02/021011_michelle_obama_ajc_o.jpg
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 10 Feb, 2011 01:43 pm
@okie,
I love this merry-go-round tactic by okie; rather than respond immediately when the question is asked, he wants the questioner to go back and hunt for his own question - that okie will ignore.

LOL Mr. Green Mr. Green Drunk Drunk Drunk Drunk
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Thu 10 Feb, 2011 04:23 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Still waiting on the answers to the questions I posed for you, Okie.
Cycloptichorn
Why should I answer your questions when you don't answer mine? To tell you the truth, I forgot what your questions were


No, you didn't. You are lying. Instead, you read them and are trying to avoid the fact that you don't have answers for them.

I think that's pretty yellow, myself. Low.

Quote:
and I would have a tough time even being interested to know what they were. You can try me if you want, by posting them again, and I might consider answering, provided you answer one or two of mine.


I asked you to identify the specific actions which led to the financial crisis of 2008 and explain how they line up with your worldview. Not ideology (such as statements like 'the government's influence made the thing happen) but an actual description of events.

I've asked you at least 5 times over the last two years to do this. You refuse each time, because you don't know the answers or the specifics about any of it. And you're not interested in knowing, because - as I have long maintained - it doesn't match your world-view, blaming the Dems and Government for everything.

Your refusal to even look into these issues, while loudly declaiming opinions on the subject, is an abdication of personal responsibility, and I repeat - cowardly. I can't respect it.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Thu 10 Feb, 2011 04:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
He did answer; he said it was caused by freddy and fannie.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Thu 10 Feb, 2011 04:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

He did answer; he said it was caused by freddy and fannie.


Yah, but that's an ideological statement. I am looking for an actual account of the events that happened.

Like, what actual events precipitated the crash? What did Fannie and Freddie DO that led to the crash? Not ideology here but facts.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Thu 10 Feb, 2011 04:36 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cyclo, If you're seeking "actual accounts," you're not going to get any. You should know that by now!
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 10 Feb, 2011 04:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Cyclo, If you're seeking "actual accounts," you're not going to get any. You should know that by now!


Can't stop trying, because it's things like this that reveal people for who they really are.

A lot of people read A2K, some to talk to others about opinions and some to get information. When people spout false information and then can't answer when questioned about it, it hurts their credibility in the eyes of those who merely read.

Cycloptichorn
 

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