H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 10:29 am
@MontereyJack,
I Hope they do make this Change and repeal Obamacare.
Obamacare was created by anti-American idiots and it's supported by the ignorant.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 10:38 am
I'd suggest that, rather than living only in your ideology-driven fantasy world, you look at the real world for a change, and compare the ample evidence from the other seventeen or so Western democracies' single-payer health systems with our system. We're at the bottom in terms of care and at the top in terms of cost. But of course you never let the real world interfere with your preconceptions.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 10:46 am
@revelette,
You know, birds and fishes dieing may be a precursor to a warning for us human species. It's weird to say the least, and it's kind of scary.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 10:48 am
@MontereyJack,
You must be hooked up to a large IV bag filled with Obama's Kool-Aid.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TFUst6NvSik/TOB1uH1GzhI/AAAAAAAAA3Y/aGVoTIb8WRc/s400/ObamaCare2.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8p-o1bIo-v8/TM8RdlIAidI/AAAAAAAAAbw/5e_fzacEFKc/s1600/DMV+and+IRS.jpg
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 10:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You know, birds and fishes dieing may be a precursor to a warning for us human species.
It's weird to say the least, and it's kind of scary.


I'm just waiting for you to blame Bush.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 10:53 am
http://www.retirelikeme.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/550Obamacare_Yes_We_Can_Repeal.png
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 10:54 am
@H2O MAN,
I already did; you just missed it! You ******* dummy.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 10:57 am
@cicerone imposter,
You ******* ignoranus, you epitomize human stupidity.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 11:30 am
@H2O MAN,
They're changing their tactics. Now instead of blaming George Bush, they're about to switch to blaming Moses, Abraham, Jesus Christ, George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 11:34 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

How is your mom, still hooking?
Are you still pimping here out to your boy friends?



my mom's been dead for 40 years. You might have a chance to speak to her without getting the brush off.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 11:50 am
@blueveinedthrobber,
You and your dad over worked and under appreciated her, shame on you.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 11:51 am


New Republican House Sets Date for Obamacare Repeal Vote
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 11:56 am
@revelette,
The birds were probably sucked up high into the air by the severe
storms where they froze before being ejected by the storms outflow.

The power of global cooling is at work here.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 12:02 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
Apparently the fishies are disease related. The bird thing still seems to be a mystery.
Obviously something else that can be blamed on global warming.

Additional edit: Oh I forgot, obviously Bush's fault too.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  0  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 01:45 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

You and your dad over worked and under appreciated her, shame on you.


No, she died of Hodgkins disease.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 01:46 pm
@MontereyJack,
I know it is easy to dismiss these yahoos and become complacent in not fighting distortions and outright lies we know is coming with the repeal vote but it is better to come out fighting with the right information right off the bat. Rather than letting the bad info stay and build up in people's minds. Being kind of dismissive of these people is what cost us (democrats) the house and votes in the senate.

The first one is as follows:

Quote:
Right-Wing Media Seize on CMS Rule Change to Revive False "Death Panel" Myth
Knight: "The Dreaded 'Death Panels' Are Back." Following news that the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) approved payment for voluntary end-of-life counseling, Robert Knight wrote in a Washington Times op-ed:

Finally, the dreaded "death panels" are back. Recall that on Christmas Eve 2009, Nevada Democratic Sen. Harry Reid's U.S. Senate rammed through the national health care system takeover. They ignored public opposition and mocked the idea that federal bureaucrats would institute end-of-life counseling. But, in deference to the public's growing alarm, they took out Section 1233.

It was a bait-and-switch. A year later, on Christmas Day 2010, the New York Times broke the story that Donald Berwick, Mr. Obama's unvetted czar who heads the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, issued a rule to pay doctors for end-of-life counseling. That was the essence of Section 1233. The Times acknowledged that the counseling "may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment." Exactly. [Washington Times, 1/2/11]


Quote:
In Fact, The Regulations Provide Compensation To Doctors For Performing Voluntary Counseling

New Regulations Simply Provide Reimbursement For "Voluntary" End-Of-Life Counseling. According to the new regulations put forward by CMS, Medicare will provide compensation for "[v]oluntary advance care planning upon agreement with the individual." The regulations further define the planning services as voluntary:

Voluntary advance care planning means, for purposes of this section, verbal or written information regarding the following areas:

(i) An individual's ability to prepare an advance directive in the case where an injury or illness causes the individual to be unable to make health care decisions.

(ii) Whether or not the physician is willing to follow the individual's wishes as expressed in an advance directive. [Federal Register, 11/29/10]


Quote:
Chicago Sun-Times Calls "Death Panel" Term "Blatantly False" And "Nonsense." A Chicago Sun-Times editorial noted:

Death panels. Government-sponsored euthanasia. Pulling the plug on grandma.

Those were just some of the blatantly false terms conservatives threw around last year to scare Congress into stripping a provision out of the health-reform bill that would have allowed Medicare to reimburse doctors for providing voluntary, end-of-life counseling to their patients.

The scare tactics worked. Now, the Obama administration has issued similar Medicare guidelines authorizing payment to doctors who provide voluntary end-of-life counseling during annual check-ups.

Not surprisingly, critics of the new guidelines, which went into effect Saturday, wasted no time reviving alarmist rhetoric that these private doctor-patient conversations would be used to goad seniors into foregoing potentially life-sustaining care in their final days.

Nonsense.

Encouraging seniors to think about what, if any, life-sustaining measures they would want taken if they were gravely ill isn't the same as encouraging them to forgo treatment. [Chicago Sun-Times, 1/2/11]






source
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 02:15 pm
Quote:
Healthcare Reform:
http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_US/us/Industries/health-care-providers/center-for-health-solutions/health-care-reform/index.htm?id=USGoogle_hcreform_310&gclid=CKLi6PKDzKUCFUN66wodrlBmlA
National health reform is here. The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the reconciliation bill are law. Together, they will trigger sweeping changes and disruptions — some rather quickly and some over many years.

http://www.naturalnews.com/026733_health_health_care_healthcare.html
What's really in Obama's health care reform bill? Almost no one knows, and here's why: It's 1,017 pages long and written in an alien form of bureaucratic English that can barely be decoded by earthlings.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2300451/posts
Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax."
realjohnboy
 
  0  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 02:34 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:


Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.


Picking just that one claim, please reread Sec 203 beginning on page 95. Do you see any mention of ACORN or Americorps or any reference to payment to anyone?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 03:43 pm
@realjohnboy,
ican has an imagination that goes beyond reality; he sees thing nobody else is privy to.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 04:05 pm
@realjohnboy,
Realjohnboy, please provide your link to July 2009 version: "Sec 203 beginning on page 95 ... Government-run Health Care plan."
Quote:

Little gems from the Health Care Bill

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=903496 ^
Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 5:12:23 PM by CMS

• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll <>BR • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesnt' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
 

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