Obama '08?

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
The public knows very clearly that Obama made good on this campaign promise and that had the 2008 election gone the other way this would not have happened. I think this does benefit Obama

I am not sure this will benefit Obama.
While its true that he campaigned to repeal DADT, and I am glad it was repealed, there are also the court cases that were involved.
Everytime it went to court, the Obama admin fought to keep DADT in place, instead of supporting repeal.

I dont see how they can reconcile those two positions.

I talked with a friend about this. I think it was a dangerous gamble, but it paid off. The Obama admin wanted this settled in Congress not in the Supreme court. Even if the end product was the same, this means the issue is put to bed. No 20 years of criticism of judicial legislation etc. Had the legislation failed, we might have seen the DoJ drop the stay on the California SC ruling.

A
R
That's my theory at least.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

Obama is a known flip-flopper who lies to everybody; he has no backbone, and I wouldn't trust him with my grandmother (long gone).

There's a thing called ethics and consistency; he has none.

2 Replies

@mysteryman,

Quote:

Everytime it went to court, the Obama admin fought to keep DADT in place, instead of supporting repeal.

You do understand that DADT had to be defended in court by the Justice Department because it was the law of the land, right? You d0 understand that the Justice Department is essentially a District Attorney, don't you?

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

I am not sure this will benefit Obama.

Here are the numbers from Rasmussen taken before this latest event.
Strongly Approve of Obama: 24%
Strongly Disapprove: 41% (equals the -17 often quoted here)
Total Approve: 46%
Total Disapprove: 53%

I think, MM, that Obama will get a bit of a blip upwards, but, as you suggest, it may not last very long. It's all about the economy, isn't it?
I would contend that the Republicans - the establishment Republicans - came out of this looking somewhat out of touch.
Many young people know someone who is gay. Perhaps there are parents who have learned that their kid is gay.
McCain and others may be perceived as sending a message that strikes many people as being wrong.
Finally, the Tea Party movement steered clear of social issues, focusing instead on the economy. I see that positioning as being troublesome for the Republican leadership when the new Congress convenes.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Who are you and what have you done with the real CI?

The real CI would not say this, not about this issue.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

Ummm, MM. where are all those good things that the USA has done? I even started a thread where you could post them.

0 Replies

@realjohnboy,

Sad to think that elections are won and lost by whomever drew the last Gerrymander.

0 Replies

@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

Here are the numbers from Rasmussen taken before this latest event-the vote on DADT.
Strongly Approve of Obama: 24%
Strongly Disapprove: 41% (equals the -17 often quoted here)
Total Approve: 46%
Total Disapprove: 53%

I think, MM, that Obama will get a bit of a blip upwards, but, as you suggest, it may not last very long. It's all about the economy, isn't it?

The numbers out today include polling for Sunday, after the Senate vote. Rasmussen uses a 3-day rolling average.
Strongly Approve: 23%
Strongly Disapprove: 37% (= -14)
Total Approve: 49%
Total Disapprove: 50%

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

Personally I like RC Politics polling because it shows an average of all the major polling.

Quote:

RCP Average 12/1 - 12/19 -- 45.6 approve 47.6 - disapprove

RealClearPolitics Poll Averages

2 Replies

@revelette,

revelette wrote:

Don't really know if it is because of the DADT or the tax thing, or just managing to work and get things done in a lame duck congress. I only hope the START thing passes, soon. Not for his ratings, but because it needs to pass.

Questions:

Why would Obama get a bump for not raising taxes and why do you think START needs to pass?

1 Reply

@revelette,

Thanks for replying, revelette. We have argued here before about Rasmussen, with some claiming that it has a Republican bias. I follow RCP, of course, but I often cite Ras because it is a poll done on a daily basis.
I say again that he uses a 3-day rolling average, so the poll out today includes Friday and Saturday (before the DADT vote) plus Sunday (after the vote). The polls coming out tomorrow and Wednesday should be interesting.

0 Replies

@H2O MAN,

Quote:

Why would Obama get a bump for not raising taxes?

Never said he would, what I said was "the tax thing" recently passed. I think people might have respected that he went outside party line in order to keep the middle class tax cuts and extending unemployment benefits. Although, they might not have.

START needs to pass. It was a treaty between Russia and the US on nuclear arms reduction. If we don't hold up our end, they have no incentive to hold up theirs.

1 Reply

@revelette,

Basically Obama gets a bump for admitting the Bush tax rate is good for Americans.

The rest of the world thinks Obama is a pussy, they will do what they want with or without a treaty.

START does not need to pass.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

If it pleases you to think the tax deal compromise in those terms, (shrugs,) go ahead.

START does need to be ratified (it has already been signed).

Quote:

Overwhelmingly, these witnesses supported timely ratification of the New START Treaty. Some of the strongest endorsements came from America’s military leaders. Admiral Mullen testified that the Treaty has “the full support of your uniformed military.” Secretary Gates confirmed in an article he published in May that “[t]he New START Treaty has the unanimous support of America’s military leadership.” And General Chilton, the commander of U.S. Strategic Command, testified that “our nation will be safer and more secure with this Treaty than without it.”

source

What gets me is that republicans are not even trying hard to deny that partisan rancor is at the bottom of the opposition to the New Start. Which by the way is supported by

Quote:

the entire U.S. military leadership and such GOP heavyweights as former President George H.W. Bush and former secretaries of State Henry A. Kissinger, George P. Shultz, Colin L. Powell and Condoleezza Rice.

source

1 Reply

@revelette,

revelette wrote:

If it pleases you to think the tax deal compromise in those terms, (shrugs,) go ahead.

Those are the terms of the tax deal.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Quote:

Mr. Obama effectively traded tax cuts for the affluent, which Republicans were demanding, for a second stimulus bill that seemed improbable a few weeks ago. Mr. Obama yielded to Republicans on extending the high-end Bush tax cuts and on cutting the estate tax below its scheduled level. In exchange, Republicans agreed to extend unemployment benefits, cut payroll taxes and business taxes, and extend a grab bag of tax credits for college tuition and other items.

source

1 Reply

@revelette,

revelette wrote:

Quote:
Mr. Obama effectively traded tax cuts for the affluent, which Republicans were demanding, for a second stimulus bill that seemed improbable a few weeks ago. Mr. Obama yielded to Republicans on extending the high-end Bush tax cuts and on cutting the estate tax below its scheduled level. In exchange, Republicans agreed to extend unemployment benefits, cut payroll taxes and business taxes, and extend a grab bag of tax credits for college tuition and other items.

source

It's an Obama victory!

0 Replies

@revelette,

Here's what People for the American Way had to say about DADT, McCain and the far right:

This weekend, the Senate took a huge step forward for equality. By voting to repeal “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” (DADT), Congress has made all of us safer and made clear that the men and women who sacrifice for our country should be treated with respect, regardless of sexual orientation.

But even with 65 Senators who voted in favor of the final bill, the fight to repeal DADT was always difficult. The vitriol and anger of those who opposed repeal was best personified by Senator John McCain, whose furious attacks and shifting rationale made clear that there was nothing he wouldn't do to keep the policy in place.

For those who remembered John McCain as a reasonable and sometimes even moderate Republican senator, the image was shocking. It seemed like Senator McCain had completely lost his mind.

Maybe he hasn’t.

Although the vast majority of Americans supported ending Don't Ask Don't Tell, the far-right base of the Republican Party was intractably opposed to extending any rights to LGBT Americans, and Senator McCain wants to remain in their good graces. Take a look at some of the reactions to the vote collected on PFAW's Right Wing Watch blog:

Bryan Fischer of The American Family Association: "The new Marine motto: 'The Few, the Proud, the Sexually Twisted.' Good luck selling that to strong young males who would otherwise love to defend their country. What virile young man wants to serve in a military like that?"

Tony Perkins of The Family Research Council: "It is clear why this was done: not to enhance the military's ability to accomplish its mission or to enhance national security. Rather, it is a political payoff to a tiny, but loud and wealthy, part of the Democratic base."

Peter LaBarbara of Americans For Truth About Homosexuality: "If the lame-duck Congress succeeds in ‘gaying down' our military this weekend, it will take a disastrous leap toward “mainstreaming” deviant, sinful homosexual conduct."

These aren't fringe figures in the Religious Right movement. They are important figures in the GOP, and party leaders are eager to cater to their bigoted agenda.

Thanks to a flood of new right-wing politicians entering Congress in just a few weeks, you can expect more extremism and more politicians playing political games with important issues.

1 Reply

@failures art,

failures art wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
The public knows very clearly that Obama made good on this campaign promise and that had the 2008 election gone the other way this would not have happened. I think this does benefit Obama

I am not sure this will benefit Obama.
While its true that he campaigned to repeal DADT, and I am glad it was repealed, there are also the court cases that were involved.
Everytime it went to court, the Obama admin fought to keep DADT in place, instead of supporting repeal.

I dont see how they can reconcile those two positions.

I talked with a friend about this. I think it was a dangerous gamble, but it paid off. The Obama admin wanted this settled in Congress not in the Supreme court. Even if the end product was the same, this means the issue is put to bed. No 20 years of criticism of judicial legislation etc. Had the legislation failed, we might have seen the DoJ drop the stay on the California SC ruling.

A
R
That's my theory at least.

A reasonable theory

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Obama is a known flip-flopper who lies to everybody; he has no backbone, and I wouldn't trust him with my grandmother (long gone).

There's a thing called ethics and consistency; he has none.

This just proves that the political spectrum is a circle.

0 Replies

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