okie
 
  1  
Fri 23 Mar, 2007 10:53 am
ehbeth, I merely supposed that the more "grownup" Republicans probably included those of the Giuliani type of politician, which is more socially liberal. That seems to be a very logical supposition. I believe there is a large question in the Republican Party in terms of which way it goes in regard to social issues vs other issues. We will still have to wait and see what Thomas says. Remember, I phrased it as a question.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 23 Mar, 2007 10:54 am
okie wrote:
ehbeth, I merely supposed that the more "grownup" Republicans probably included those of the Giuliani type of politician, which is more socially liberal. That seems to be a very logical supposition. I believe there is a large question in the Republican Party in terms of which way it goes in regard to social issues vs other issues. We will still have to wait and see what Thomas says. Remember, I phrased it as a question.


No, it isn't a logical position; a 'grownup' republican isn't a moderate or a democrat, it's a true Conservative who respects the rule of law and the American people.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Fri 23 Mar, 2007 10:56 am
Cyclops, knock off the nonsense. If your party was concerned about the rule of law, Hillary would not even be running.

Use an ounce of common sense, please?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 23 Mar, 2007 11:01 am
okie wrote:
Cyclops, knock off the nonsense. If your party was concerned about the rule of law, Hillary would not even be running.

Cyclop, use an ounce of common sense, please?


Please - you know two facts here before you say this:

First, I am anti-Hillary.

Second, you can't stop someone for running for President if they want to, so what the hell are people supposed to do about it?

Your attempt to change the subject to Democrats is futile. We're talking about the Cult of Personality which has taken over the Republican party, and the inevitable return to sanity which must follow.

Let me ask you: do you deny that Republicanism has replaced Conservatism with Authoritarianism as it's driving force?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Fri 23 Mar, 2007 11:03 am
okie wrote:
ehbeth, I merely supposed that the more "grownup" <blah>. We will still have to wait and see what Thomas says. Remember, I phrased it as a question.


you made a supposition - hoping to get folks riled - added a throw-away question.

The sensible approach might have been to simply ask Thomas what he meant.

~~~~

Silliness.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 23 Mar, 2007 11:44 am
okie wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Good. I hope this will help the grownup Republicans take charge and make their party attractive again.

Whats that supposed to mean, Thomas? Does it include abortion sanctioned and paid for by government is hunky dory?

No, but it definitely includes quitting to appoint ideologically connected incompetents; it includes not firing staffers for telling politically incorrect truths; it includes a restoration of habeas corpus, stopping torture instead of inventing nicer names for it, and stopping illegal wiretaps. When this is done, I'd be willing to negotiate about all the other points. But in my comment about the grown-up Republicans, I was mostly thinking about a return to conventions of civil government as practiced -- by Democrats and Republicans -- during the 224 years before Bush. If this takes a devastating Republican loss in 2008, I can live with that.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 23 Mar, 2007 11:49 am
Thomas wrote:
okie wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Good. I hope this will help the grownup Republicans take charge and make their party attractive again.

Whats that supposed to mean, Thomas? Does it include abortion sanctioned and paid for by government is hunky dory?

No, but it definitely includes quitting to appoint ideologically connected incompetents; it includes not firing staffers for telling politically incorrect truths; it includes a restoration of habeas corpus, stopping torture instead of inventing nicer names for it, and stopping illegal wiretaps. When this is done, I'd be willing to negotiate about all the other points. But in my comment about the grown-up Republicans, I was mostly thinking about a return to conventions of civil government as practiced -- by Democrats and Republicans -- during the 224 years before Bush. If this takes a devastating Republican loss in 2008, I can live with that.


Don't you find it to be funny that Okie took what you said in a completely different fashion? It really shows what you are talking about Smile

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 23 Mar, 2007 11:59 am
Okie asked me what I meant by "grown-up Republican", so I explained it to him. Let's leave it at that. No need to get nasty.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 23 Mar, 2007 12:01 pm
Thomas wrote:
Okie asked me what I meant by "grown-up Republican", so I explained it to him. No need to get nasty.


I'm not trying to be nasty; just think that it's illustrative about the ways the modern Republican in America has greatly changed from what it used to mean. And when reminded of this fact, the modern Republican denies that things were ever any different. It's astounding to me.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Fri 23 Mar, 2007 10:14 pm
Thomas wrote:
okie wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Good. I hope this will help the grownup Republicans take charge and make their party attractive again.

Whats that supposed to mean, Thomas? Does it include abortion sanctioned and paid for by government is hunky dory?


No, but it definitely includes quitting to appoint ideologically connected incompetents; it includes not firing staffers for telling politically incorrect truths;

Can you name names?
Quote:
it includes a restoration of habeas corpus, stopping torture instead of inventing nicer names for it,

Can you provide evidence that enemy combatants have ever had the full rights of a civilian court? And can you provide evidence that the government has not halted true torture when it was found out? Can you provide any evidence that Bush authorized torture. And for clarification, do you consider standing for long periods of time or listening to loud music torture? Can you provide any evidence that prisoners at Gitmo have been treated more severely than in previous wars? Do terrorist suspects captured in Afghanistan or Iraq deserve the same rights as a civilian criminal?

Quote:
and stopping illegal wiretaps. When this is done, I'd be willing to negotiate about all the other points.

Can you provide any evidence that wiretaps and monitoring of mail and other communications have not been done in other wars? Do you believe the president has no authority whatsoever in this regard to protect the country?
Quote:
But in my comment about the grown-up Republicans, I was mostly thinking about a return to conventions of civil government as practiced -- by Democrats and Republicans -- during the 224 years before Bush. If this takes a devastating Republican loss in 2008, I can live with that.
Please explain what you mean by civil government. I live here and I frankly do not see any difference in people's lives and government than before, except Democrats are more confrontational and uncivil than ever, and the leftist whackos are hollering louder about nothing. Concerning tolerance toward crime, things are too civil, if you consider the fact that criminals can now sue property owners if they get hurt while they break in and rob them. You must be kidding, Thomas? Sure, you have leftist whackos saying there is less civility, but you have to consider such are on the increase and they are hollering louder than ever, and the press gives them a voice. They are the ones not providing civility. If a couple dozen people protest something, they make the news, when their complaint has little or no popular support. Maybe this is what you see in Germany on CNN, well don't believe half of what you see and hear.

If you apply some simple historical context here, perhaps you can explain what you mean. For example, please explain why you must believe FDR's rounding up of tens of thousands of Japanese Americans and placing them in concentration camps 50 years ago was more civil than now. Please explain why you believe JFK wiretapping Martin Luther King was more civil than wiretapping terrorist suspects to protect the country against another attack, which Bush has apparently done now. And explain why the FBI routinely doing such was more civil than now, such as FDR, JFK, and LBJ wiretapping their political enemies was more civil than now. Please explain why you apparently believe slavery as a policy over 150 years ago was more civil than now. Please explain why Abraham Lincoln placing people under arrest for sedition who criticized the government was more civil than now, wherein leftists deface property and call Bush a Nazi and worse, wish him dead, and openly sympathize with terrorists. Please explain why you believe the previous 224 years was more civil than now. I frankly think your assertion that somehow the Bush administration is less civil than the previous 224 years is totally absurd. If you believe the whacko leftists, and the willing press, in trying to spin and build this image, you are more gullible than I thought, Thomas.

Frankly, we finally have "grownups" in the Whitehouse. We had to endure 8 years of a narcissistic, dysfunctional, and immature president that cared more about himself, his fun, and his political image than caring about the country. We had a man that never ran a business, never did anything notable, except aspire to be in government. I am not the only one that feels somewhat better now than before. Not perfect, but far better than what we had, and what we could be having now. I do not always agree with George Bush, but I can respect the man. Now, if Congress would grow up and start worrying about doing something productive instead of useless and self-serving politicking and hearings, we would be better off yet.

Question, who are the "grownups" that you might consider? Can you name names?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 24 Mar, 2007 07:27 am
There'll be obviously a lot about Obama in tomorrow's paper - so it's online already now :wink:

http://i11.tinypic.com/312fgax.jpg

The story of Obama's early years highlights how politics and autobiography are not such different creatures: The framework of both is shaped to serve a purpose

Photo gallery
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 24 Mar, 2007 07:27 am
Quote:
The not-so-simple story of Barack Obama's youth


By Kirsten Scharnberg and Kim Barker
Tribune correspondents
Published March 25, 2007


HONOLULU -- The life stories, when the presidential candidate tells them, have a common theme: the quest to belong.

A boy wants to find his place in a family where he is visibly different: chubby where others are thin, dark where others are light.

A youth living in a distant land searches and finds new friends, a new language and a heartbreaking lesson about his identity in the pages of an American magazine.

A young black man struggles for acceptance at an institution of privilege, where he finds himself growing so angry and disillusioned at the world around him that he turns to alcohol and drugs.

These have been the stories told about the first two character-shaping decades of U.S. Sen. Barack Obama's life, a story line largely shaped by his own best-selling memoirs, political speeches and interviews.

But the reality of Obama's narrative is not that simple.

More than 40 interviews with former classmates, teachers, friends and neighbors in his childhood homes of Hawaii and Indonesia, as well as a review of public records, show the arc of Obama's personal journey took him to places and situations far removed from the experience of most Americans.

At the same time, several of his oft-recited stories may not have happened in the way he has recounted them, sometimes making him look better in the retelling, and sometimes skipping over some of the most painful, private moments of his life.


*Full report via the link above*
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sat 24 Mar, 2007 12:36 pm
Okie -- since this is a thread about Obama, my answer to all your "can you..." questions is: I not in this thread. If you are seriously interested in discussing them, feel free to start a new one about it.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Sat 24 Mar, 2007 09:41 pm
Fair enough, Thomas. Thanks for your kind response. I apologize for coming off as confrontational. Well, I guess I apologize only partly, because I firmly believe this administration has been and is being dumped on constantly these days in a very unfair manner, with no historical context applied to the accusations leveled at it day in and day out, with charges trumped up and mountains made out of mole hills. Give me a little time, as I will be busy in coming days.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sun 25 Mar, 2007 08:50 am
Sounds like a plan, Okie. Good luck with whatever you're going to be busy with.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Mon 26 Mar, 2007 04:33 pm
Here's some poetry that Obama wrote as a 19-year-old college kid...


POP
Sitting in his seat, a seat broad and broken

In, sprinkled with ashes,

Pop switches channels, takes another

Shot of Seagrams, neat, and asks

What to do with me, a green young man

Who fails to consider the

Flim and flam of the world, since

Things have been easy for me;

I stare hard at his face, a stare

That deflects off his brow;

I'm sure he's unaware of his

Dark, watery eyes, that

Glance in different directions,

And his slow, unwelcome twitches,

Fail to pass.

I listen, nod,

Listen, open, till I cling to his pale,

Beige T-shirt, yelling,

Yelling in his ears, that hang

With heavy lobes, but he's still telling

His joke, so I ask why

He's so unhappy, to which he replies...

But I don't care anymore, cause

He took too damn long, and from

Under my seat, I pull out the

Mirror I've been saving; I'm laughing,

Laughing loud, the blood rushing from his face

To mine, as he grows small,

A spot in my brain, something

That may be squeezed out, like a

Watermelon seed between

Two fingers.

Pop takes another shot, neat,

Points out the same amber

Stain on his shorts that I've got on mine, and

Makes me smell his smell, coming

From me; he switches channels, recites an old poem

He wrote before his mother died,

Stands, shouts, and asks

For a hug, as I shrink, my

Arms barely reaching around

His thick, oily neck, and his broad back; 'cause

I see my face, framed within

Pop's black-framed glasses

And know he's laughing too.




UNDERGROUND

Under water grottos, caverns

Filled with apes

That eat figs.

Stepping on the figs

That the apes

Eat, they crunch.

The apes howl, bare

Their fangs, dance,

Tumble in the

Rushing water,

Musty, wet pelts

Glistening in the blue.


http://www.oxyweekly.com/
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Mon 26 Mar, 2007 09:49 pm
Do you care to analyze that, snood? I think I will decline.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Mon 26 Mar, 2007 10:30 pm
Thomas wrote:
Sounds like a plan, Okie. Good luck with whatever you're going to be busy with.


Here is the thread started, Thomas.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2584138#2584138
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Tue 27 Mar, 2007 03:08 am
okie wrote:
Do you care to analyze that, snood? I think I will decline.

No. I thought it might be interesting to show some humanity, is all.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Tue 27 Mar, 2007 03:20 am
I don't know that Obama is my favorite, me being left of him, but I like him.
I didn't get what was all so terrible about any skippos or mispos in his autobiography. Well, yes, the one guy. On the other hand, I'm sure I can name people in my life who would describe stuff differently.

It's sort of annoying, all the going after chaff. Just wait, I'm sure all candidates have serious bits to answer, or, that they should have, and serious bits are what matter.

Right now it looks like reporters are going after toe detritus.
0 Replies
 
 

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