Obama '08?

Good evening.
I was a bit surprised to see the issue of the bailouts of the banks and the auto companies come up again here. I thought we had talked that to death months ago on this thread, on the "Where is the economy" thread and the "Conservatism" thread.
I was reading recently about the deficits being racked up by state and local governments. Huge deficits. I read a projection - which I alas can not cite - that some 800K workers may be terminated. Some may be the guys who lean on shovels staring at a pothole. Others may be teachers and cops. 800K nationally.
Does that, in your minds, rise to the level of a crisis worthy of some kind of federal government assistance? Or should we let these state and local governments collapse?
An A2Ker who no longer participates in discussions here because of the petty and often bitter bickering emailed me a long article today about the storm clouds she sees brewing on the state and municipal levels. I find it sad that she, who disagrees with me on some issues, no longer feels like participating.
I am still digesting that and working on connecting it to stuff I have collected.

I was a bit surprised to see the issue of the bailouts of the banks and the auto companies come up again here. I thought we had talked that to death months ago on this thread, on the "Where is the economy" thread and the "Conservatism" thread

long article today about the storm clouds she sees brewing on the state and municipal levels

The Democrat majority Congress and the Bush administration "determined that letting GM collapse was unacceptable."
Both were wrong.

I would think that would make you happy, to see Democrats help big business, jam packed with conservatives, go careening on its merry way, totally without personal responsibility.

Article I.
Section 8. The Congress shall have power

To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;

--And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Year……TOTAL US CIVIL EMPLOYMENT
1980……………..99 miillion [CARTER]
2000……………137 million [CLINTON]
2007………..….146 million [BUSH43]
2008………….. 145 million [BUSH43]
2009,……….....140 million [OBAMA]
2010.……………139 million [OBAMA] (June)

Year.…….PERCENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATION EMPLOYED
1980…………………………………….59.2 [CARTER]
1988…………………………………….62.3 [REAGAN]
1992…………………………………….61.5 [BUSH41]
2000…………………………………….64.4 [CLINTON]
2007…………………………………….63.0 [BUSH43]
2008…………………………………….62.2 [BUSH43]
2009…………………………………….59.3 [OBAMA]
2010…………………………………….58.5 [OBAMA] (June)

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Year……TOTAL US CIVIL EMPLOYMENT
1980……………..99 million [CARTER]
1988…………… 115 million [REAGAN]
1992…………….118 million [BUSH41]
2000……………137 million [CLINTON]
2007………..….146 million [BUSH43]
2008………….. 145 million [BUSH43]
2009,……….....140 million [OBAMA]
2010.……………139 million [OBAMA] (June)

Year.…….PERCENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATION EMPLOYED
1980…………………………………….59.2 [CARTER]
1988…………………………………….62.3 [REAGAN]
1992…………………………………….61.5 [BUSH41]
2000…………………………………….64.4 [CLINTON]
2007…………………………………….63.0 [BUSH43]
2008…………………………………….62.2 [BUSH43]
2009…………………………………….59.3 [OBAMA]
2010…………………………………….58.5 [OBAMA] (June)

I was reading recently about the deficits being racked up by state and local governments. Huge deficits. I read a projection - which I alas can not cite - that some 800K workers may be terminated. Some may be the guys who lean on shovels staring at a pothole. Others may be teachers and cops. 800K nationally.
Does that, in your minds, rise to the level of a crisis worthy of some kind of federal government assistance? Or should we let these state and local governments collapse?

I posted an article several months ago, rjb, and I doubt if I could find it now, which addressed the fact that we are on a collision course between the public sector and the private sector, with the public sector basically sucking up all of the resources to the point that the private sector can no longer support the monster that has been created, the monster being the public sector

From the Center for Responsive Politics:
WALL STREET'S TOP 5 GIVING TO CONGRESS IN 2010
$1,556,099 => Senator Charles Schumer - Dem NY
$ 660,175 => Senator Harry Reid - Dem NV
$ 644,450 => Senator Kirsten Gillibrand - Dem NY
$ 516,300 => Represenative Mark Kirk - R IL
$ 445,248 => Senator Chris Dodd - Dem CT

WALL STREET TOTAL GIVING TO CONGRESS IN 2010
$13,315,043 => DEMOCRATS
$ 8,775,966 => REPUBLICANS

WALL STREET GIVING IN 2008
$14,907,585 => BARACK OBAMA
$ 8,710,135 => JOHN MCCAIN