JTT
 
  2  
Fri 16 Jul, 2010 03:11 pm
@okie,
Quote:
and a government that cares about the rule of law


Really, Okie. You mean like smuggling drugs into America to earn cash to pay for terrorists that those same "rule of law" governments formed. Is this what you mean by "rule of law"?
okie
 
  -2  
Fri 16 Jul, 2010 05:00 pm
@JTT,
Oh no, another one of the liberals whacko conspiracy theories! And do you also believe the CIA smuggled drugs into the inner cities to intentionally kill off black people?
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 11:39 am
Everyone should know that Bush is actually running the Obama administration. That's why the Obama administration is greatly expanding the same kinds of things Bush did Jan 2001 to Jan 2009. Bush wants to make Obama look worse than he did, so I bet he'll make Obama increase the income tax rates to those that existed during Carter's administration.

………………~~~~~~~~!??!??! ~~~~~~
………………~~~~~~~~
(O|O) ~~~~
………………..~~~~.~~
( ~o~ )



0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 01:03 pm
okie, JTT may be talking about the contras in Nicaragua, Ronald Reagan's fair-haired boys, whose drug smuggling is pretty well documented (the Reagan administration actually admitted it apparently). Not so wacko after all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_and_Contras_cocaine_trafficking_in_the_US
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:27 pm
@okie,
An August, 1996, series in the San Jose Mercury News by reporter Gary Webb linked the origins of crack cocaine in California to the contras, a guerrilla force backed by the Reagan administration that attacked Nicaragua's Sandinista government during the 1980s. Webb's series, "The Dark Alliance," has been the subject of intense media debate, and has focused attention on a foreign policy drug scandal that leaves many questions unanswered.
This electronic briefing book is compiled from declassified documents obtained by the National Security Archive, including the notebooks kept by NSC aide and Iran-contra figure Oliver North, electronic mail messages written by high-ranking Reagan administration officials, memos detailing the contra war effort, and FBI and DEA reports. The documents demonstrate official knowledge of drug operations, and collaboration with and protection of known drug traffickers. Court and hearing transcripts are also included.

Special thanks to the Arca Foundation, the Ruth Mott Fund, the Samuel Rubin Foundation, and the Fund for Constitutional Government for their support.
maporsche
 
  0  
Sun 18 Jul, 2010 05:31 am
@plainoldme,
Yeah, it wasn't just Reagan who wanted to stifle the productive socio-economic growth of black people, it was Clinton too (according to Teenyboone).
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Sun 18 Jul, 2010 03:39 pm
Quote:
Six Months to Go Until
The Largest Tax Hikes in History
from Americans for Tax Reform, July 7:
http://www.atr.org/six-months-untilbr-largest-tax-hikes-a5171


In just about six months, the largest tax hikes in the history of America will take effect. They will hit families and small businesses in three great waves on January 1, 2011:

First Wave: Expiration of 2001 and 2003 Tax Relief

In 2001 and 2003, the GOP Congress enacted several tax cuts for investors, small business owners, and families. These will all expire on January 1, 2011:

Personal income tax rates will rise. The top income tax rate will rise from 35 to 39.6 percent (this is also the rate at which two-thirds of small business profits are taxed). The lowest rate will rise from 10 to 15 percent. All the rates in between will also rise. Itemized deductions and personal exemptions will again phase out, which has the same mathematical effect as higher marginal tax rates. The full list of marginal rate hikes is below:

- The 10% bracket rises to an Expanded 15%
- The 25% bracket rises to 28%
- The 28% bracket rises to 31%
- The 33% bracket rises to 36%
- The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%


Higher taxes on marriage and family. The "marriage penalty" (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of income. The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child. The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level. The dependent care and adoption tax credits will be cut.

The return of the Death Tax. This year, there is no death tax. For those dying on or after January 1 2011, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes and a retirement account could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones.

Higher tax rates on savers and investors. The capital gains tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 20 percent in 2011. The dividends tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 39.6 percent in 2011. These rates will rise another 3.8 percent in 2013.

Second Wave: Obamacare

There are over twenty new or higher taxes in Obamacare. Several will first go into effect on January 1, 2011. They include:

The "Medicine Cabinet Tax" Thanks to Obamacare, Americans will no longer be able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin).

The "Special Needs Kids Tax" This provision of Obamacare imposes a cap on flexible spending accounts (FSAs) of $2500 (Currently, there is no federal government limit). There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education.

The HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike. This provision of Obamacare increases the additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.

Third Wave: The Alternative Minimum Tax [AMT] and Employer Tax Hikes

When Americans prepare to file their tax returns in January of 2011, they'll be in for a nasty surprise-the AMT won't be held harmless, and many tax relief provisions will have expired. The major items include:

The AMT will ensnare over 28 million families, up from 4 million last year. According to the left-leaning Tax Policy Center, Congress' failure to index the AMT will lead to an explosion of AMT taxpaying families-rising from 4 million last year to 28.5 million. These families will have to calculate their tax burdens twice, and pay taxes at the higher level. The AMT was created in 1969 to ensnare a handful of taxpayers.

Small business expensing will be slashed and 50% expensing will disappear. Small businesses can normally expense (rather than slowly-deduct, or "depreciate") equipment purchases up to $250,000. This will be cut all the way down to $25,000. Larger businesses can expense half of their purchases of equipment. In January of 2011, all of it will have to be "depreciated."

Taxes will be raised on all types of businesses. There are literally scores of tax hikes on business that will take place. The biggest is the loss of the "research and experimentation tax credit," but there are many, many others. Combining high marginal tax rates with the loss of this tax relief will cost jobs.

Tax Benefits for Education and Teaching Reduced. The deduction for tuition and fees will not be available. Tax credits for education will be limited. Teachers will no longer be able to deduct classroom expenses. Coverdell Education Savings Accounts will be cut. Employer-provided educational assistance is curtailed. The student loan interest deduction will be disallowed for hundreds of thousands of families.

Charitable Contributions from IRAs no longer allowed. Under current law, a retired person with an IRA can contribute up to $100,000 per year directly to a charity from their IRA. This contribution also counts toward an annual "required minimum distribution." This ability will no longer be there.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Sun 18 Jul, 2010 04:59 pm
The 2011 tax hikes will generate more revenue for the federal government in 2011. How about in 2012 and thereafter? Will it be like it was with the Clinton tax hikes? Federal tax revenues decreased in Bush’s 2nd and 3rd years—2002, 2003--following Clinton's previous tax hikes. Federal tax revenues began to increase again in Bush’s 4th year, 2004, the year following Bush’s tax cuts in 2003. Federal tax revenues have increased every year thereafter.

Federal tax revenues also decreased the year, 1983, Reagan established his major tax cuts, but increased thereafter until 2002.

Quote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2008/pdf/hist.pdf
TABLE 1.1 SUMMARY OF BUDGET RECEIPTS OUTLAYS SURPLUSES OR DEFICITS 1789-2012 (IN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS)
YEAR – FEDERAL RECEIPTS IN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS - PRESIDENT
1976 – 379,292
1977 -- 355,559 - CARTER
1978 -- 399,561
1979 -- 463,302
1980 -- 517,112
1981 -- 599,272 - REAGAN
1982 –- 617,786
1983 –- 600,562
1984 –- 666,486
1985 –- 734,088 - REAGAN
1986 –- 769,215
1987 –- 854,353
1988 –- 909,303
1989 –- 991,190 - BUSH 41
1990 –- 1,032,094
1991 –- 1,055,093
1992 –- 1,091,328
1993 –- 1,154,471 - CLINTON
1994 –- 1,258,721
1995 –- 1,351,932
1996 –- 1,453,177
1997 –- 1,579,423 - CLINTON
1998 –- 1,721,955
1999 –- 1,827,645
2000 –- 2,025,457
2001 –- 1.991,426 - BUSH 43
2002 –- 1,853,395
2003 –- 1,782,532
2004 –- 1,880,279
2005 –- 2,153,859 - BUSH 43
2006 –- 2,407,254
2007 –- 2,540,096
2008 –- 2,662,474
2009 –- 2,798,307 - OBAMA
2010 –- 2,964,724
xris
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 02:46 am
@ican711nm,
Now are you equaling tax returns with prosperity ,prosperity equals higher tax returns, or increases in taxes through legislation? Figures can be manipulated from your political perspective.They mean nothing, absolutely nothing.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 04:19 am
@xris,
So then you will admit that the figures and numbers the current admin is using also mean nothing.
xris
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 04:30 am
@mysteryman,
Figures are there for your convenience, nothing more. I don't know enough to comment on them. I just know that higher tax returns can mean either the economy has improved or there was more legislation. Stating that tax returns rose under Clinton could mean the economy had gradually improved or he had introduced more tax laws.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 11:14 am
@ican711nm,
Quote:
? Federal tax revenues decreased in Bush’s 2nd and 3rd years—2002, 2003--following Clinton's previous tax hikes.


Ah, Hello?!?! Bush cut taxes in 2001. You can't blame Clinton's tax hikes on the lower revenues which followed this.

It's like you live in a fantasy world sometimes, Ican, where things that don't match the narrative are just... ignored.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 11:43 am
@ican711nm,
Another question for ya, Ican:

Who passed the bills which lead to these tax hikes? Which Congress did it, who was in the majority, and who signed the bill?

Cycloptichorn
JTT
 
  2  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 01:18 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Oh no, another one of the liberals whacko conspiracy theories!


Not unless you consider the information stored in US government files as "liberals whacko conspiracy theories".

Quote:
And do you also believe the CIA smuggled drugs into the inner cities to intentionally kill off black people?


No, I don't have any information that they did this to intentionally kill off black people. But a similar situation did occur. You might have heard of it.

Quote:
The Tuskegee syphilis experiment[1] (also known as the Tuskegee syphilis study or Public Health Service syphilis study) was a clinical study conducted between 1932 and 1972 in Tuskegee, Alabama, by the U.S. Public Health Service. Investigators recruited 399 impoverished African-American sharecroppers with syphilis for research related to the natural progression of the untreated disease, in hopes of justifying treatment programs for blacks.[1]

By 1947 penicillin had become the standard treatment for syphilis. Choices might have included treating all syphilitic subjects and closing the study, or splitting off a control group for testing with penicillin. Instead, the Tuskegee scientists continued the study, withholding penicillin and information about it from the patients. In addition, scientists prevented participants from accessing syphilis treatment programs available to others in the area. The study continued, under numerous supervisors, until 1972, when a leak to the press resulted in its termination. Victims included numerous men who died of syphilis, wives who contracted the disease, and children born with congenital syphilis.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment


There is a wealth of information, again from government files [whacko liberals probably], that points to the CIA experimenting on US citizens of all color with various viruses.

Quote:

Human Experimentation in the United States

There have been numerous human experiments performed in the United States that have been considered unethical, and were often performed illegally, without the knowledge, consent, or informed consent of the test subjects.

Many types of experiments were performed including the deliberate infection of people with deadly or debilitating diseases, exposure of people to biological and chemical weapons, human radiation experiments, injection of people with toxic and radioactive chemicals, surgical experiments, interrogation/torture experiments, tests involving mind-altering substances, and a wide variety of others. Many of these tests were performed on children and mentally disabled individuals. In many of the studies, a large portion of the subjects were poor racial minorities or prisoners. Often, subjects were sick or disabled people, whose doctors told them that they were receiving "medical treatment", but instead were used as the subjects of harmful and deadly experiments, without their knowledge or consent.

Many of these experiments were funded by the United States government, especially the Central Intelligence Agency and the United States military. The human research programs were usually highly secretive, and in many cases information about them was not released until many years after the studies had been performed.

The ethical, professional, and legal implications of this in the United States medical and scientific community were quite significant, and led to many institutions and policies which attempted to ensure that future human subject research in the United States would be ethical and legal. Public outcry over the discovery of government experiments on human subjects led to numerous congressional investigations and hearings, including the Church Committee, Rockefeller Commission, and Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments, amongst others.

However, as of 2010, not a single U.S. government researcher has been prosecuted for human experimentation, and many of the victims of U.S. government experiments have not received compensation, or in many cases, even acknowledgment of what was done to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_experimentation_in_the_United_States


These are what you mean by the rule of law, right?


Quote:
THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA:

part II

CIA COVERT OPERATIONS IN CENTRAL AMERICA, CIA MANIPULATION OF THE PRESS, CIA EXPERIMENTATION ON THE U.S. PUBLIC

by John Stockwell

Now case officers that do these things in places in Nicaragua, they do not come back to the U.S. and click their heels and suddenly become responsible citizens. They see themselves - they have been functioning above the laws, of God, and the laws of man - they've come back to this country, and they've continued their operations as far as they can get by with them.

And we have abundant documentation of that as well. The MH-Chaos program, exposed in the late 60's and shut down, re-activated by President Reagan to a degree - we don't have the details yet - in which they were spending a billion dollars to manipulate U.S. student, and labor organizations.

The MK-ultra program. For 20 years, working through over 200 medical schools and mental hospitals, including Harvard medical school, Georgetown, some of the biggest places we've got, to experiment on American citizens with disease, and drugs.

They dragged a barge through San Francisco bay, leaking a virus, to measure this technique for crippling a city. They launched a whooping cough epidemic in a Long Island suburb, to see what it would do to the community if all the kids had whooping cough. Tough **** about the 2 or 3 with weak constitutions that might die in the process.

They put light bulbs in the subways in Manhattan, that would create vertigo - make people have double vision, so you couldn't see straight - and hid
cameras in the walls - to see what would happen at rush hour when the trains are zipping past - if everybody has vertigo and they can't see straight and they're bumping into each other.

Colonel White - oh yes, and I can't not mention the disease experimentations - the use of deadly diseases. We launched - when we were destabilizing Cuba for 7 years - we launched the swine fever epidemic, in the hog population, trying to kill out all of the pigs - a virus. We experimented in Haiti on the people with viruses.

I'm not saying, I do not have the slightest shred of evidence, that there is any truth or indication to the rumor that the CIA and its experimentations were responsible for AIDS. But we do have it documented that the CIA has been experimenting on people, with viruses. And now we have some deadly, killer viruses running around in society. And it has to make you wonder, and it has to make you worry.

Colonel White wrote from retirement - he was the man who was in charge of this macabre program - he wrote, `I toiled whole-heartedly in the vineyards because it was fun, fun fun. Where else could a red-blooded American boy lie, kill, cheat, steal, rape and pillage with the blessings of the all highest?' Now that program, the MK-ultra program, was eventually exposed by the press in 1972, investigated by the Congress, and shut down by the Congress. You can dig up the Congressional record and read it for yourself.

There's one book called `In Search of the Manchurian Candidate'. It's written by John Marks, based on 14,000 documents gotten out of the government under the Freedom of Information Act. Read for yourselves. The thing was shut down but not one CIA case officer who was involved was in any way punished. Not one case officer involved in these experimentations on the American public, lost a single paycheck for what they had done.

The Church committee found that the CIA had co-opted several hundred journalists, including some of the biggest names in the business. The latest flap or scandal we had about that was a year and a half ago. Lesley Gelb, the heavyweight with the New York Times, was exposed for having
been working covertly with the CIA in 1978 to recruit journalists in Europe, who would introduce stories, print stories that would create sympathy for the neutron bomb.

The Church committee found that they had published over 1,000 books, paying someone to write a book, the CIA puts its propaganda lines in it, the professor or the scholar gets credit for the book and gets the royalties. The latest flap we had about that was last year. A professor at Harvard was exposed for accepting 105,000 dollars from the CIA to write a book about the Middle East. Several thousand professors and graduate students co-opted by the CIA to run its operations on campuses and build files on students.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/StockwellCIA87_2.html


You mean examples like this of the rule of law, do you?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 01:24 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
There's no such thing as a tax hike Cyclo. It's just a bludgeon expression to define a payment in advance for services to be rendered in the future which are agreed by the consensus in a democracy to be necessary. Only a fool would offer a payment in advance for something he thought un-necessary.

It's an expression used very often by those who want the services but don't want to pay for them. The expression implies a sense of injustice which you have failed to establish.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 01:24 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
It's like you live in a fantasy world sometimes, Ican, where things that don't match the narrative are just... ignored.


Shocked Shocked Shocked coughs, chokes, tries to clear throat due to unexpected ingestion of saliva from the SHOCK of reading this. Goes back to check if it was really Cycloptichorn who said it. Yup, it was.

Methinks this is illustrative of a wee bit of, what's that word, oh yeah, hypocrisy. What do you think, Cy?
ican711nm
 
  0  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 01:38 pm
@xris,
Total federal tax income increased under both tax rate decreases and tax rate increases.

So, let's keep the current 2010 tax system until the feds can create a simpler and even lower tax rate system. That way the private sector can buy more and invest more, and thereby increase jobs, and federal revenue.
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 01:45 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2051527/posts
Partial History of U.S. Federal Income Tax Rates
Highest and lowest Income Tax Rates 1971 to 2009
...
1971-1981: minimum = 14%; maximum = 70% [CARTER 1977-1981]

1982-1986: minimum = 11%; maximum = 50% [REAGAN 1981-1989]

1987-1987: minimum = 11%; maximum = 38.5%

1988-1990: minimum = 15%; maximum = 33% [BUSH 41 1989-1993]

1991-1992: minimum = 15%; maximum = 31%

1993-2000: minimum = 15%; maximum = 39.6% [CLINTON 1993-2001]

2001-2001: minimum = 15%; maximum = 39.1% [BUSH 43 2001-2009]

2002-2002: minimum = 10%; maximum = 38.6%

2003-2009: minimum = 10%; maximum = 35%

2009-2010: minimum = 10%; maximum = 35%[OBAMA 43 2001-2009]

xris
 
  1  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 01:53 pm
@ican711nm,
Sorry for my ignorance but how can you place Obama from 2001 and Obama is the same as Bush or lower by your figures. What do these figures indicate if anything?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Mon 19 Jul, 2010 01:53 pm
http://newstrust.net/stories/2527198/toolbar?ref=sp
America's Ruling Class -- And the Perils of Revolution
By Angelo M. Codevilla from the July 2010 - August 2010
(more later)
0 Replies
 
 

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