Obama '08?

Not following Obama all that closely but wondering (as the Rev Al has asked) what's the deal with him and Lieberman?

0 Replies

We talked about it here, actually. I'll find it back and give you a link.

0 Replies

sozobe wrote:

We talked about it here, actually. I'll find it back and give you a link.

thanx

0 Replies

sozobe wrote:

He does have a record, though. It's limited but it's there. 8 years in Illinois Senate, will have 4 as a U.S. Senator by the time he's running for president (if he makes it through the primaries). That's a good dozen years of experience. Not experience as president, no, but there's only one way to get that experience.

Somehow I can not equate experience gained as a state senator with that of national office. In particular the presidency of the US. In addition it is not only the experience as I said but a lack of not words but actions which reveals what he stands for.

0 Replies

OK this, is the main post, more two posts down:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1961603#1961603

The main things that stand out for me are

a) Lieberman was 55 points up at the time!! (Good reminder about how fast the worm can turn.) As in, the "endorsement" wasn't particularly meaningful in that context.

b) Lieberman was some sort of mentor to Obama, never quite figured out how that worked, if it was assigned or what.

c) The "endorsement" happened at an event for state Democrats. It wasn't just about Lieberman, at all.

Quote:

A few minutes later, however, the audience was riveted as Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, the guest speaker at the $175-a-plate dinner, stood on the podium and began the customary round of recognition of candidates and incumbents in the room. When he got to Mr. Lieberman, who is his mentor in the Senate and who helped recruit him to speak at the event, the applause again was muted.

So, to recap, this wasn't "Obama goes to a Lieberman event and endorses him"; it was "Obama goes to a state Democrat event in 2004 -- a stated goal of his was to help as many Democrats get into office as possible -- and then begins a customary round of recognition of candidates present, of which Lieberman was one."

It sounds, from context, like it would have been horribly rude for him to ignore Lieberman. Not-worth-it rude.

0 Replies

au1929 wrote:

Somehow I can not equate experience gained as a state senator with that of national office. In particular the presidency of the US. In addition it is not only the experience as I said but a lack of not words but actions which reveals what he stands for.

That's what I'm saying. He HAS actions. He's voted on all kinds of things. He's introduced all kinds of bills. He's done the things that politicians do to make things happen.

0 Replies

sozobe wrote:

au1929 wrote:
Somehow I can not equate experience gained as a state senator with that of national office. In particular the presidency of the US. In addition it is not only the experience as I said but a lack of not words but actions which reveals what he stands for.

That's what I'm saying. He HAS actions. He's voted on all kinds of things. He's introduced all kinds of bills. He's done the things that politicians do to make things happen.

That tells me nothing on how he would react to issues of state [National]. I have very little trust in politicians and even less in those who do not have a meaningful record.. Sorry, he is not my cup of tea. Maybe in 12 or 16 but not in 08

0 Replies

That's fine, of course. I just think a lot of this stuff that keeps being repeated ("pretty face and nice promises, no substance") is false, and try to counteract it when I see it.

As a last comment, though, his performance in the U.S. Senate DOES tell you a lot about how he will react to National issues. And he'll have four years of a "meaningful record" by the time you would (or wouldn't) vote for him. That's not a ton, and I have said before that my own preference is for more experience. That's also not nothing, though.

0 Replies

au1929 wrote:

sozobe wrote:
au1929 wrote:
Somehow I can not equate experience gained as a state senator with that of national office. In particular the presidency of the US. In addition it is not only the experience as I said but a lack of not words but actions which reveals what he stands for.

That's what I'm saying. He HAS actions. He's voted on all kinds of things. He's introduced all kinds of bills. He's done the things that politicians do to make things happen.

That tells me nothing on how he would react to issues of state [National]. I have very little trust in politicians and even less in those who do not have a meaningful record.. Sorry, he is not my cup of tea. Maybe in 12 or 16 but not in 08

What kind of State Government-level experience would fill you with confidence in that "issues of state (National)" scenario?

0 Replies

au1929 wrote:

sozobe wrote:
Interesting article, thanks!

I'm really not worried about him when it comes to foreign policy.

My worry is that we have no record to fall back on. He say's all the right things and has a fast mind. However, talk is cheap. Electing someone to the most powerful office in the world on good looks and a fast tongue is a bit to chancy for my taste.

People keep saying that. Would you mind defining what it is you are looking for when searching for his record? What is it you need to find before you're able to point and say, "that's his record."

0 Replies

Heh, next time I'll read through to the end before posting a Pete and Re-pete scenario. Laughing

0 Replies

Butrflynet

One can only be judged by his actions not his rhetoric. IIMO I have not seen enough to make that judgement and jump on his bandwagon.

0 Replies

Well there's whether you've seen it and whether it exists.

Where have you looked?

0 Replies

Oh, you edited -- don't remember the first version but the edited version is more reasonable.

Sure, if you haven't seen enough to make a judgement, that's understandable (and actually exactly what we're saying, since you seemed to be making the NEGATIVE judgement that he was just about rhetoric).

Plenty of info on his actions out there if you'd like to look.

0 Replies

sozobe

Yes I have looked. It can be seen on google. Nothing outstanding all party line votes.

0 Replies

Well that brings it back to what DO you consider adequate experience/ actions, for ANY candidate?

You're switching the goal posts -- first you were talking about experience/ actions, now you're saying the actions don't differ from the party line enough for you.

And it's not all party line votes. I'll let you tell me which ones aren't, since you've done your research.

0 Replies

sozobe wrote:

Well that brings it back to what DO you consider adequate experience/ actions, for ANY candidate?

You're switching the goal posts -- first you were talking about experience/ actions, now you're saying the actions don't differ from the party line enough for you.

And it's not all party line votes. I'll let you tell me which ones aren't, since you've done your research.

There is just not enough to make a judgement.

I would add that in the case of the other leading contenders McCain, Clinton and Guliani you pretty much know what you are voting for or against.

0 Replies

You keep saying variations of that -- what do you base it on?

Can you provide some specifics?

What DON'T you know about Obama that bothers you? Like, his position on abortion? Death penalty? What?

0 Replies

au1929 wrote:

. I have very little trust in politicians and even less in those who do not have a meaningful record.

and your choices are ... governors / other senators / former mayors

Quote:

I would add that in the case of the other leading contenders McCain, Clinton and Guliani you pretty much know what you are voting for or against.

do any of them have meaningful records in regard to national issues?

~~~~~

Have you looked at Mr. Obama's campaign website? compared them to what else is on offer at this point?

(they're all at the bottom of the page this links to - The primary primer)

0 Replies

Ahhhh, thanks for that link, ehBeth. I have some comparing and contrasting to do myself...

0 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know