plainoldme
 
  0  
Thu 20 May, 2010 05:31 pm
@okie,
But you deny the truth every time you post here. You have no idea what any political or economic concept means. When we tell you, you tell us we lie.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Thu 20 May, 2010 05:32 pm
@dyslexia,
It makes them feel self-righteous.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Thu 20 May, 2010 05:33 pm
@dyslexia,
Just like Leo Strauss . . . to maintain leadership, one must lie to the people.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Thu 20 May, 2010 05:36 pm
@hawkeye10,
The manner in which the questions are stated will predetermine the outcome. There are ways to state questions to obtain the answers the pollster wants.
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Thu 20 May, 2010 05:45 pm
Odem are repeatedly doing and saying exactly what they accuse conservatives of doing and saying. Odem self deceit is growing with each day.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Thu 20 May, 2010 06:09 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:


3, the difference between Ras issue polling and race polling is huge.

Cycloptichorn

I am confident, Cyclo, that I know what you are talking about. But could you clarify this, please?
I am afraid that my fingerprints are all over why Rasmussen is the pollster used in a number of A2K threads involving politics. I explained 18 or so months ago why that was the pony that I, a liberal Dem, was riding. I don't intend to repeat the reasoning unless asked.
If someone wants to introduce a different poll on (for example) President Obama's Approval vs Disapproval numbers, that is fine with me. But posting a number from May 20th is meaningless unless we can see how that number has changed over the course of his term in office in that poll.
Does that make sense?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Thu 20 May, 2010 06:40 pm
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
I am confident, Cyclo, that I know what you are talking about. But could you clarify this, please?


I appreciate your confidence; but, you are perfectly correct to ask!

Here is a good place to start, re: Rasmussen's consistent Conservative bias:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/04/use-of-likely-voter-model-does-not.html

And here's a great article highlighting the difference between their election and issue polling:

http://washingtonindependent.com/30539/rasmussen-the-only-poll-that-matters

In the above article:

Quote:
Scott Rasmussen is well aware of how Republicans use his polling to make their arguments. “Republicans right now are citing our polls more than Democrats because it’s in their interest to do so,” he said on Monday. “I would not consider myself a political conservative " that implies an alignment with Washington politics that I don’t think I have.”


Sounds great, until you find out that he was a paid pollster for Bush in 2004 and has written a wide variety of articles championing typical Conservative positions.

Cycloptichorn
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Thu 20 May, 2010 07:02 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Wow. Thanks for the response. Too late tonight for digesting and tomorrow I am busy. This weekend.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Thu 20 May, 2010 07:55 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

So out of 23 polls, only 5 were better then the Ras poll?

I would say that is pretty good.


Those 5 weren't even 'better.' They were all equally good. My point isn't that Ras election polling is bad, it isn't. It is that:

1, it isn't the 'best' and certainly not based on an incomplete study,

2, Okie has had exactly this pointed out to him several times, and

3, the difference between Ras issue polling and race polling is huge.

Cycloptichorn

So you admit Rasmussen was in fact close to the top in terms of accuracy. It sure takes you long enough to admit it in a round about way, cyclops.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Thu 20 May, 2010 07:56 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

My younger son and I were just talking about how far removed today's Republican Party is from the party of Lincoln. During the 19th C., the Republicans were the party of the progressives, of Abolitionists, of Feminists, and, yes, of big government. Well, they still are the party of big government, they pretend not to be.

It is apparent you know very little about Lincoln or what the Republicans stood for, either then or now.

Today's term "progressive" basically translates into ultra socialist or communist, and I can tell you one thing if you are too dense to know it, pom, Abraham Lincoln was no progressive, socialist, or communist, in fact he was about as far as you can get from that. Today's Demcratic Party is so far left, as to not even be recognizable in context with the 1800's.
okie
 
  -1  
Thu 20 May, 2010 07:57 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

The manner in which the questions are stated will predetermine the outcome. There are ways to state questions to obtain the answers the pollster wants.

I have known that for a very long time about liberal pollsters. Its nice to see you are finally waking up to the truth, pom.
okie
 
  -3  
Thu 20 May, 2010 08:33 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:
But posting a number from May 20th is meaningless unless we can see how that number has changed over the course of his term in office in that poll.
Does that make sense?

It is not meaningless. And the numbers are readily available. I have posted the numbers intermittently for a very long time, probably since Obama was elected. Besides, all you have to do is look at the graphic I posted and see the history of the strongly approve / strongly disapprove index since Obama was inaugurated in January of 2009, it is not difficult. I think the maximum differential has been a little over 20%, I do not remember the exact number or the date, but the graphic gives you a good visual picture of the trend since January of 09.

For those that did not read the first graph, here it is again:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/may_2010/obama_approval_index_may_20_2010/314953-1-eng-US/obama_approval_index_may_20_2010.jpg
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  2  
Thu 20 May, 2010 08:49 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The right wingers always fail to acknowledge who pays the pollster.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Thu 20 May, 2010 08:51 pm
@okie,
It is more apparent that you are functionally illiterate and live in a dream world. Do you smoke opium?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Thu 20 May, 2010 08:52 pm
@okie,
How do you like the Verrazano Narrows?
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Thu 20 May, 2010 08:58 pm
You missed the point, Okie, completely. I said that I started using Rasmussen here a year and a half or more ago. I suggested that, if anyone wants to use some OTHER poll, that is fine. But in order to have any relevance, any OTHER poll would have to be cited showing changes over a similar period of time on any given topic. Do you agree?

Just To Mess With Your Heads (Rasmussen 5/19):
81% of Americans polled view the size of our deficit as a major problem.
49% blame President Bush with 56% saying he increased spending too much.
43% say the increase in the deficit is Obama's fault.
kuvasz
 
  1  
Thu 20 May, 2010 08:58 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Why is it no surprise that kuvasz shows up to accuse any poll he doesn't like to be tainted. kuvasz only likes polls or so-called news organizations that are biased, skewed, and tainted toward Democrats? Actually, Rasmussen turned out to be one of the most accurate in the last presidential election, but of course your news sources probably would not have told you that, kuvasz.


Actually Okie, like all classically trained scientists, I like the truth, something with which you seem to have only a fleeting acquaintence.

Cyclo beat me to it, but since you posted to me:

“Yesterday the nation had several hot races, including the House special election in PA-12, primaries in both parties in Kentucky and Arkansas, and the Democratic Senate primary in Pennsylvania.

“And somehow, Rasmussen was nowhere to be found. Yet this past week, Rasmussen found time to poll Colorado, California, and those burning Idaho senate and governor races. He even polled the general election in Arkansas, ignoring the imminent primaries -- the better to show Arkansas Republican primary voters who their strongest candidate was.

“You see, the thing about Rasmussen is that he cares only about setting the narrative that Democrats are doomed, and it's hard to build those narratives if you screw up polling actual elections.

“In pollster.com's generic ballot composite index,

http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/10-us-house-genballot.php

“For example, Republicans narrowly lead Democrats 42.7% to 41.3%. But when you exclude Rasmussen and YouGov (a Democratic leaning internet poll), Democrats lead by a slightly larger 44.5% to 42.0% margin. Including YouGov would have given Democrats a larger 47.3% to 41.4% margin, meaning that the inclusion of Rasmussen alone results in a huge 7.3% swing towards the GOP.

“By November, Rasmussen's polling will be nicely in line with the rest of the polling aggregate, as he adjusts his voter screens to match reality, not whatever GOP-heavy universe he currently lives in. By then, he'll be less worried about setting narratives, and more worried about getting races right so that he can brag about his electoral track record. That way, he uses that credibility in order to once again set bullshit narratives in the 2012 election cycle. It's quite the scam!
“Because if it itsn't a scam, there's no reason he should've skipped polling the big Tuesday races.”

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/5/19/102811/879

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/3/8/7346/81628

The issue is not that Rasmussen predicted correctly ANY election but that is consistantly an outlier that elevates the popularity of the GOP, far beyond what the rest of the polling organiztions show.

My initial post was directly related to your use of suspect data sources that have been shown to be inconsistant with the other polling organizations in polling popularity, not actual elections.

In affect, you want people to use an 11 inch ruler to measure the fish you caught, so you can proclaim you caught a one foot long stripped bass.

It is dishonest, and you ought to be ashamed for attempting to sell such ****.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Thu 20 May, 2010 09:28 pm
Rasmussen's last poll of the PA primary was 5/10. according to my records. The primary was when? He had Sestek over Specter 47-42%. The actual result was a much larger 54%-46%. Not too good, eh.
Can you find a poll that did better?
When were his last polls of the primaries in KY and AR?
I am no great defender of Rasmussen, but if you want to criticize, at least get your facts right.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Thu 20 May, 2010 09:44 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:
I don't have a constant need to post that I have them on ignore. Okie and Finn seem to have that need.


I have posted a single thread that addresses, in part, issues including ignoring certain individuals. That thread hardly exhibits a constant need to announce who I have on ignore.

If you can find proof of my constant need, please share it with us all.

And before you ask...yes, I really want you to try.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Thu 20 May, 2010 09:46 pm
@eoe,
eoe wrote:

You know the name of that tune, Cyclo. Lie or truth, fact or fiction, all you have to do is repeat it over and over and enough dimwits will start to believe it.




Yes indeed it's a practice known as The Big Lie.

Obama is quite fond of it.
 

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