Obama '08?

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Are you serious? Thomas just outlined three different situations where Obama clearly did not do that. He didn't pick a solution anywhere near what the 'left' position would have been, let alone the Extreme left.

You really do just ignore everything that doesn't fit the narrative, dontcha?

Cycloptichorn

I have told you the obvious a bunch of times. An extreme leftist cannot run as an extreme leftist, because they won't win. They cannot be honest about their true beliefs. Also, if elected, they cannot push for their entire agenda immediately, it has to be incrementally. Obviously, you have never studied people like Alinsky or other leftists, cyclops, or perhaps you are just as dishonest as other extreme leftists, as you apparently are.

The obove Trues are what makes it so difficult to deal with people like Obama, he is shifty and dishonest, a politician that is not open and honest, he is not an open book. You have to study the man, his background, his friends and associates, and be sharp enough to catch the buzzwords and hints to what he is really about. In short, he is not a trustworthy and straightforward politician, not at all. If he was truly a centrist, he would not have admired and listened to Jeremiah Wright for 20 years, nor would he have hung around Ayers and kicked off his political career at his house. Birds of a feather flock together. Obama is no centrist. There is little doubt that Obama is clearly a radical, similar to most to the people he learned from and admired. Believe it, cyclops.

It is totally obvious that Obama has a government solution to every problem, and he is clearly trying to approach every policy decision from the left. I would call that "governing from the left," not anything like being a centrist.

So which is it? Is he governing from the left or not? Have his decisions thus far shown someone who is governing from the left on every issue, or not?

The answer is clearly no. You merely want it to be yes, so that he can fit the boogeyman image you've created of him.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

So which is it? Is he governing from the left or not? Have his decisions thus far shown someone who is governing from the left on every issue, or not?

The answer is clearly no. You merely want it to be yes, so that he can fit the boogeyman image you've created of him.

Cycloptichorn

If you had read my post, you should understand. He approaches every issue from the left, but he cannot succeed in instituting all of his ultimate goals immediately, in regard to each issue, therefore he will take what he can get - so to speak, as anything further to the left is considered to be progress.

A very good example is health care, he wants a single payer system with the federal government in charge, but he may realize now that his ultimate goal is not attainable right now, so he will work, dodge and weave, as his minions in Congress will also, but his ultimate goal is not dead, not at all.

To use an analogy, a basketball player will run the length of the court hoping for a dunk, or at least a layup, but if the opportunity is not there, perhaps the defense has gotten back and has blocked the play, so he will instead take a jump shot from the top of the circle, and will then hope for the rebound to score.

Similarly, I believe Obama would like to nationalize the energy industry, but he cannot or will not be able to do that soon, so he will work to remake the industry as much as he possibly can in the near term.
He would like to nationalize every industry, or remake the industries to answer to the government somewhat like a utility has to.

This is how Marxists think. They do not believe in the people's liberty or free markets, they only believe in themselves and the omnipotence of government.

To use an analogy, a basketball player will run the length of the court hoping for a dunk, or at least a layup, but if the opportunity is not there, perhaps the defense has gotten back and has blocked the play, so he will instead take a jump shot from the top of the circle, and will then hope for the rebound to score.

I am distinguishing between intent or approach, versus results.

I have amply pointed out already, including to Thomas, that Obama cannot institute extreme leftist policies in all cases, or immediately in any case for that matter, but he approaches every issue from the left, that he does do, no doubt in my mind.

So, does that mean he is governing as a centrist or leftist? If he is ending up being sort of centrist on issues, it isn't because he wants to be, its because Congress and the American people are cutting him off and boxing him in. Does he deserve credit for it, absolutely not.

no doubt in my mind.

Quote:

no doubt in my mind.

I believe that one of the key factors in Obama's political success so far has been his unusual ability to make himself appear as sympathetic to the views of the listener - whomever he/she may be and whatever they may be. This studied ambiguity was a key factor in his stunningly rapid ascent in American politics, however, it arguably has not served him well in office as President. I don't know whether this is and has been just a chosen tactic in a complex political struggle or whether it reflects something deeper in the character of our President. I do occasionally get the imppression of an inner emptiness and lack of conviction with respect to unifying principles.

<<<<snip>>>>

Bottom line here is I'm not at all sure what Obama really is (perhaps he doesn't either). That may well be his chief weakness as a political leader.

Obama is not governing from the left.

Thomas wrote:

Obama is not governing from the left.

I think you've identified the problem.

joefromchicago wrote:

Thomas wrote:

Obama is not governing from the left.

I think you've identified the problem.

Perhaps so. However, most of the evidence suggests he would now face far more political difficulty if he had done so, - or had been more open about it, depending on your perspective.

There is lots of anecdotal evidence out there suggesting that it is precisely the "we (alone) know what's good for you" attitude of many progressives that is behind much of the political groundswell now opposing our President.

He lays out general ideas, but refuses to get specific.
That is not the way to govern.

mysteryman wrote:

He lays out general ideas, but refuses to get specific.
That is not the way to govern.

He can't be specific about what he really wants, because he is a radical at heart, with Marxist sympathies. The man is not reasonable, he has no experience, and no real qualifications for the job. Basically, hes lost, he is out of his element, without a clue.