Diest TKO
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 12:21 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
While I don't think that Mr. Brown's election is symptomatic of people wanting to get HRC passed, I do think people are sick of having it talked to death with little action. Polls still show that people want it to go through.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 09:44 am
Polls probably show most want reform; I'd be surprised to see a poll that shows most favoring this particular bill.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 10:01 am
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

Good afternoon.
The Rasmussen Presidential approval poll came out this morning. It is potentially interesting, if you believe in polls.
28% Strongly Approve of Mr Obama's performance vs 40% who strongly disapprove. That yields an index of (28-40) -12. Friday the index was -17. That is quite a dramatic change.
Rasmussen uses a 3-day rolling average methodology. So there is still one day's worth of polling following the State of the Union speech that will show up in Sunday's Index.
The bounce is, according to Rasmussen, totally attributable to Dems. Repubs and Indies didn't move. The positive for Mr Obama is that Dems may be getting over the Mass Senate loss.

Overall, 49% approve of Mr Obama. 51% disapprove.


Sunday's numbers: 33-40 = -7 Index.
Overall, a 50-50% split.
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 10:04 am
The Reps have recently won some big battles: the smashing of health-care reform and the election of Scott Brown. This is explained in the following piece.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8474611.stm
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 10:19 am
@ican711nm,
You obviously believe in the trickle-theory. Maybe your masters will let you come into the main house. BTW, it was invented by Billy Carter.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 10:24 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Advocate wrote:

Hey, bring it on! The nonsensical stuff from the doesn't faze me. After all, you guys are led by the nose by the likes of Palin, Hannity, and Limbaugh.


It is abundantly clear from his persistent, repeated defensive responses that Advocate is uterly unfazed and unaffected by all this!!! Laughing Laughing

With each response he stoops lower. And, in Advocate's case, it appears that there is no level to which he will not stoop.


It is too bad you cannot effective assail what I say. Thus, you are forced to stoop to casting the ad hominem.

0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 10:26 am
I must of rubbed some sore points. The right is flaming me.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 11:44 am
@realjohnboy,
The entire 'strong approve v. strong disapprove' matrix is specifically designed to make the guy in office look bad, because it ignores the fact that those who are against a politician are much more likely to be strongly against him, then those who support him are likely to be strongly for him. And it's no wonder that Rasmussen invented it just in time for a Dem administration to come about; if we applied that formula to Bush's term, his average rating would have been -40 to -50 or so.

Where is the admission from those on the right who constantly point to this poll, that it isn't really representative of the state of the country?

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 11:48 am
Quote:
Few are as good at delivering a high-stakes speech as President Obama, something he proved again in Wednesday's State of the Union. The speech, which focused on jobs and the economy, was feisty, confident and -- rare for presidential addresses -- funny. The insta-poll numbers were great. Joe Klein called it "Obama at his best." It was so good, in fact, that virtually nobody noticed that Obama had already lost the argument.

The tell came a few days before, when the White House proposed a -- deep breath here -- non-security discretionary spending freeze. The inelegantly titled policy halts spending growth in a category that accounts for 13 percent of the federal budget. From the perspective of long-term deficits, that spending -- much less its growth over three years -- is insignificant.

A spending freeze might be what Americans envision when they think about deficit reduction. The only problem is, it won't do much to reduce the deficit. As the Economist pointed out, "Mr. Obama has apparently concluded that the electorate can't be expected to handle anything like a real description of the tough decisions which must be made."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/30/AR2010013000032.html?hpid=topnews

Heard somewhere yesterday that it has been four decades since a serious national problem has been solved in Washington, and that we have at least five that need to be solved ASAP. We have yet to begin the project.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 12:01 pm
@Advocate,
This is from the link provided by Advocate.
Quote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8474611.stm
If people vote against their own interests, it is not because they do not understand what is in their interest or have not yet had it properly explained to them.

They do it because they resent having their interests decided for them by politicians who think they know best.

There is nothing voters hate more than having things explained to them as though they were idiots.

As the saying goes, in politics, when you are explaining, you are losing. And that makes anything as complex or as messy as healthcare reform a very hard sell.

A majority of us oppose the Democrat's Senate/House Health Care bills. A majority of us do not oppose fed health care.

The following would be cheaper and more desireable than those two bills:
1. Replace medicare, medicaid, and health insurance for non-military fed employees with fed vouchers for each American to purchase private health care insurance;
2. Make each voucher worth $3,225 so that a family of four would annually receive 4 x $3,225 = $12,900 to buy there own annual private health insurance.

For a total American population of 310 million, the total annual cost to the feds would be slightly less than one trillion dollars ($970,725,000,000). That amount is less than the total cost of the Democrat Senate/House Bill plus Medicare, Medicaid, and non-military fed employees.

Alternatively, the feds could provide those same annual vouchers to only those approximately 15 million Americans who allegedly cannot afford to buy there own private health care insurance. That would annually cost the feds less than 49 billion dollars ($48,375,000,000).

Alternatively,
THE CHANGE THAT IS TRULY REQUIRED

Too many Americans have discovered how to vote themselves money from federal government tax revenues. They do this by electing candidates who ignore our Constitution and vote those Americans who elected them money from federal government tax revenues. As a result we are losing our freedom and abundance to our envy and resentment, and ultimately to our dependency and bondage.

To stop and reverse this damnable trend, we must find and support candidates who shun the politics of envy and resentment for the politics of freedom; for the politics of securing our God given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that are secured when we support our Constitution. Who among the future candidates will shun the politics of envy and resentment for the politics of freedom and support our Constitution? Indeed, who among all of us Americans will shun the politics of envy and resentment for the politics of freedom and support of our Constitution?

For us to be true Americans, we must root for everyone to become the best they can be, and we must stop seeking to suppress those who accomplish more than we do. We are all made better off when any among us lawfully make themselves better off. We are all made worse off when any among us unlawfully make others worse off.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 12:40 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

The entire 'strong approve v. strong disapprove' matrix is specifically designed to make the guy in office look bad, because it ignores the fact that those who are against a politician are much more likely to be strongly against him, then those who support him are likely to be strongly for him.


And where is your proof for this rather novel, and rather general, proposition ?
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 12:47 pm
@ican711nm,
I think that the Reps have been very successful in currying favor with people who are not well educated and who are relatively ignorant of current events, history, etc. Limbaugh, Hannity, Palin, et al., have convinced them of the truth of such nonsense as Obama's Kenyan birth, his Muslim religion, death panels, govt.-paid abortions, taxpayer funds for illegals, etc. Thus, they vote against things that are clearly in their best interests.
Irishk
 
  2  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 01:09 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
I think that the Reps have been very successful in currying favor with people who are not well educated and who are relatively ignorant of current events, history, etc.


We hear this from time to time, but I haven't seen any evidence that Democrats (listening to Limbaugh/Hannity/Palin's counterparts) are more well educated or better informed than their Republican counterparts. Besides, isn't the fastest growing group the Independents? Do you think they're also relatively ignorant of current events or history and vote against things that are clearly in their best interests?

0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 01:16 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
The entire 'strong approve v. strong disapprove' matrix is specifically designed to make the guy in office look bad, because it ignores the fact that those who are against a politician are much more likely to be strongly against him, then those who support him are likely to be strongly for him.

And where is your proof for this rather novel, and rather general, proposition ?


I would be surprised if he found any. To put Rasmussen's results into perspective, I went to Polling report.com and checked what the other pollsters were finding. If Cycloptichorn was right, they would have come out more favorably to Obama than Rasmussen did. But that is not the case. Rasmussen falls right into the middle among its polling peers.

I think a more serious problem with all of these polls is that they're failing to ask a much more important question: Obama is trying to govern as a centrist. He's governing amidst the most severe recession since World War II. Pollsters are finding that voters are dissatisfied with him. (No kidding?) So, what do voters think their centrist president should do about it: Should he move to the right or the left?

I think if pollsters asked this question, they would find a good share of Democratic voters on both sides of this question. So shouldn't pollsters ask how many dissatisfied voters are dissenting from the left of Obama's position, and how many are dissenting from the right of it? I think they should. But I don't see pollsters looking into this much at all. I find this very mysterious, not to mention unsatisfactory.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 01:20 pm
@Advocate,
I think that the Dems have been very successful in currying favor with people who are not well educated and who are relatively ignorant of current events, history, etc. Obama, Palosi, Reid, Soros, Ayres, Wright, Alinski, et al, have convinced them of the truth of such nonsense as Bush is responsible for Obama's problems, Republicans are obstructionist preventing the Democrats from solving America's problems, Bush cut taxes only for the rich, the greed of the wealthy is preventing economic growth in America, and redistribution of wealth by the feds from those who want it to those who need it is constitutional. Thus, they vote against things that are clearly in their best interests.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 01:24 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
I think a more serious problem with all of these polls is that they're failing to ask a much more important question: Obama is trying to govern as a centrist.

Is Obama trying to govern as a centrist? Or, is Obama attempting to convince voters that his governing from the left is governing from the center?
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 01:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

My vote for most audacious spin is that which asserts that Scott Brown was elected in Mass because the voters wanted to send a message to Washington that they should stop dicking around and get Obamacare passed.

Somehow this actually got on the latest Democratic talking points memo.


Do you have proof of this? Sounds farfetched.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 01:27 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Thomas wrote:
I think a more serious problem with all of these polls is that they're failing to ask a much more important question: Obama is trying to govern as a centrist.

Is Obama trying to govern as a centrist? Or, is Obama attempting to convince voters that his governing from the left is governing from the center?


I think the majority believe he's governing from the Left. That's according to a Gallup poll from 11/09, but I'd be surprised if it's changed much. 54% at the time, as I recall.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 01:30 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

I think that the Dems have been very successful in currying favor with people who are not well educated and who are relatively ignorant of current events, history, etc. Obama, Palosi, Reid, Soros, Ayres, Wright, Alinski, et al, have convinced them of the truth of such nonsense as Bush is responsible for Obama's problems, Republicans are obstructionist preventing the Democrats from solving America's problems, Bush cut taxes only for the rich, the greed of the wealthy is preventing economic growth in America, and redistribution of wealth by the feds from those who want it to those who need it is constitutional. Thus, they vote against things that are clearly in their best interests.


The public feels that Obama has been somewhat a failure -- he largely failed to reverse the damage done by Bush and the Republicans.
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2010 01:33 pm
The Republicans latest thing is to claim that they are all for HC reform, but have their own proposals to reform the system. This is total BS considering that, since Nixon, there has not been a single proposal for reform by the Republicans.
 

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