snood
 
  1  
Mon 5 Feb, 2007 07:27 pm
You meant "high in all places", right? Laughing
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 5 Feb, 2007 07:28 pm
http://saij.wordpress.com/2007/01/21/gore-obama-ticket-for-2008/
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Mon 5 Feb, 2007 07:28 pm
Is that article dated February 11, 2007?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Mon 5 Feb, 2007 07:36 pm
Yeah, it's a mock-up of a hypothetical occurance....
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Mon 5 Feb, 2007 11:09 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
snood wrote:
After reading a piece by Elayne Boosler aobut how insulting it is to ask "Are we ready for a Woman President?", this thought occured to me (and it is not original)...

True equaltity will be reached in this country when we can have truly mediocre Blacks in high places.


I have had a lot of black friends over the years both mediocre, very smart and outright dumbasses.

I have been in high places with all of them.
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
http://www.able2know.com/forums/images/avatars/84693088645c7d789d90e7.jpg
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

What do you think of that Soz?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Mon 5 Feb, 2007 11:33 pm
Hey, everyone, read this editorial about Obama. Okay, okay - it's from HuffingtonPost, but grit your teeth, and read it, anyway.

It voices a lot of the resonance of Obama's candidacy.

If the campaign doesn't scar him too badly and he is able to be heard out by all the voters, this is the first black man who has me actually believing he would have a chance.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-hanft/brunch-with-barack_b_40478.html
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Tue 6 Feb, 2007 12:48 am
Sit down Snood. I read the Huffington Post and agreed with every word... save my base instincts on Obama were forged during his speech at the DNC, not the media hype since. I haven't been this excited about a Presidential contest since Ross Perot's first.

Tonight I watched Giuliani on Hannity and Combs... and I'm sorry to report was equally impressed. Hannity tried to rattle him with his stance on abortion and gun control, and he was solid as a rock. On abortion; he responded with something to the effect of "you have to be true to yourself and people have to understand that, and sure you're going to lose some votes, but tough luck". He wavered not at all. On guns he used NY, NY as an example and clearly demonstrated the value in gun control in the city, while suggesting in more rural areas it isn't necessary so it should be more of a local issue. Again, he stood by what he thought was right, though diametrically opposed to the party line. Given the current unpopularity of far right politics, this may be a unique opportunity for an honest man to get the nod, instead of yet another poster boy pretending to pander to the middle.

Now I love the idea that Obama would be a "first" for our country, and even more that he doesn't seem to be daring me into it (as said in your Huffington story). Not necessary. If I wind up 50/50, I'd be forced to give him the nod, anyway. Same goes for Hillary, meaning a female candidate (though in all honesty, that would be harder), but the odds of her changing my mind about her are somewhere between slim and none. Yesterday I watched her babble about how if she were President, we wouldn't have went to war... which is 180 degrees from where she stood before, during and even for a while after we went to war. Today, I watched her talking about oil profits being record high and how she wants to take those profits and invest them into alternative energy development. This sounds like a damn good idea, until you stop and think that the profits she's talking about are not hers to take. Now I hate our dependence on foreign oil more than most, and couldn't agree more that alternative measures need to be instituted... but gasoline is still the most fascinating bargain I can think of. Horsepower per dollar is truly staggering if one really considers it, and the oil companies money isn't Hillary's to take. By all means, kick my A$$ at the pump with taxes, but don't make it sound like you're nationalizing the industry. The Republicans will boil her with Venezuela/Chavez comparisonsÂ… if they don't decide to lay off for now, in consideration that she'd likely be easier to defeat that Obama or Edwards (that is my honest opinion). I hope for Obama's sake; people recognize the hypocrisy in her war talk and the moral bankruptcy in her attacks on the oil companies. Any damn fool can see we get what we pay for there.

Has anybody seen Obama's take on Nuclear Energy? This is truly our best friend towards ending our dependence. For that matter; Hillary's? Giuliani and McCain's? Is there a handy reference site somewhere for this?

Sorry Soz, if I babbled to far off topic.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Tue 6 Feb, 2007 01:58 am
http://aaenvironment.blogspot.com/2006/12/barack-obama-and-nuclear-power-spent.html
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 6 Feb, 2007 08:39 am
Quote:
Race is sensitive subtext in campaign

South Side church's tenets spark criticism of Obama by some conservatives


By Manya A. Brachear and Bob Secter
Tribune staff reporters

February 6, 2007

The expected launch of Barack Obama's presidential campaign is still days away, but his quest to become the nation's first black commander in chief already is forcing a delicate examination of how candidates talk about race.

That conversation took an awkward turn last week when Sen. Joseph Biden (D-Del.) ruined his presidential campaign announcement with clumsy comments meant to praise Obama though widely interpreted as a putdown of other prominent black politicians.

But Obama also faces his own challenges in dealing with race as he seeks to frame himself as a candidate who can bridge historic divisions not only of race, but class and religion as well.

Even the simple act of choosing a church can become fodder in a national political campaign, where every facet of a candidate's life and associations will be put under a microscope. A year before the first primary contests, Obama is taking fire from both the left and the right in these matters.

The product of a black Kenyan father, white American mother and a series of elite schools, Obama has prompted some African-Americans to question whether he is really in touch with their lives.

In conservative circles

At the same time, conservative critics already have begun a buzz on the Internet about a far less known part of his biography: his adherence to the creed of the prominent South Side church he attends, Trinity United Church of Christ. The congregation posits what it terms a Black Value System, including calls to be "soldiers for black freedom" and a "disavowal of the pursuit of middleclassness."

In an interview late Monday, Obama said it was important to understand the document as a whole rather than highlight individual tenets. "Commitment to God, black community, commitment to the black family, the black work ethic, self-discipline and self-respect," he said. "Those are values that the conservative movement in particular has suggested are necessary for black advancement.

"So I would be puzzled that they would object or quibble with the bulk of a document that basically espouses profoundly conservative values of self-reliance and self-help."

In his published memoirs, Obama said even he was stopped by Trinity's tenet to disavow "middleclassness" when he first read it two decades ago in a church pamphlet. The brochure implored upwardly mobile church members not to distance themselves from less fortunate Trinity worshipers.

"As I read it, at least, it was a very simple argument taken directly from Scripture: `To whom much is given much is required,'" Obama said in the interview.

That was then. On Saturday, Obama is expected to thrust himself into the hothouse atmosphere of presidential campaign politics, where the principles and teachings of Obama's church might require some explanation for, say, some white, middle-class voters in Iowa or New Hampshire.

As a candidate who has presented himself as able to enliven a national discourse on faith--he filled his now-famous Democratic convention speech in 2004 with religious language--Obama would not be the first presidential candidate to invite an examination of the political implications of his religious beliefs.

Like President John Kennedy, a Roman Catholic, 2004 vice presidential candidate Joseph Lieberman, an Orthodox Jew, or current GOP presidential contender Mitt Romney, a Mormon, Obama at some point in a presidential campaign would be asked to explain how he would balance the tenets of his faith with his political positions.

The intended meaning behind certain Trinity precepts is complex, but some theologians argue that on one level they brush up against a number of the same issues raised by Biden's awkward choice of words.

"In both cases--in the value system and in the case of Biden's comments--we do have a situation where Americans are trying to talk across the wide chasm that is race," said Melissa Harris-Lacewell, a professor of politics and African-American studies at Princeton University.

Harris-Lacewell until last year attended Trinity when she taught at the University of Chicago. "Perceptually, blacks and whites live in vastly different worlds," she added. "Biden didn't mean it to be racist. Certainly Obama doesn't mean that God doesn't love white people. . . . Malicious [intent] or not does not necessarily matter if the ideas are prepackaged with all of this historical baggage."

Looking to weigh Obama down with some of that baggage, conservative critics have seized on Trinity's 12-point Black Value System, especially the portion relating to "middleclassness," as evidence that Obama is a divisive candidate who rejects mainstream American values and is primarily focused on the black community.

"I question his . . . ability to be able to reach out to a lot of people when he is committed to a group of people who are focused on helping a certain group of people," said Fran Eaton, editor of Illinois Review, a conservative political blog. "It seems wrong."

But Obama scoffed at the suggestion that Trinity espouses a value system that seeks to help blacks exclusively. "If I say to anybody in Iowa--white, black, Hispanic or Asian--that my church believes in the African-American community strengthening families or adhering to the black work ethic or being committed to self-discipline and self-respect and not forgetting where you came from, I don't think that's something anybody would object to.

"I think I'd get a few amens."

Trinity, which adopted the principles in 1981, highlights them in brief form on its Web site without elaboration. That leaves room for critics to fill the vacuum.

Difficult task awaits

Political scientist Steffen Schmidt, an Iowa State University expert on the party caucuses in his state, said anything perceived as a rejection of the middle class will not sit well with voters. Fair or not, Obama must move quickly to explain the value system and what it means to him or risk having the issue defined by critics, he said.

Otherwise, Schmidt added: "There go the soccer moms and there go the NASCAR dads."

Explaining those religious ideas could prove a difficult task in today's political world where complex concepts must be reduced to pithy sound bites and attempts at nuance are often considered evidence of being wishy-washy.

Trinity's value system springs from an era when black Christians in Chicago were abandoning congregations they felt were too closely aligned with the administration of Mayor Richard J. Daley. A similar exodus was occurring around the country, with African-Americans turning away from black pastors they felt were too tepid in their response to the civil rights movement.

To curb black flight from the pews, Trinity's pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., embraced a theology of black liberation that held black Christians accountable for taking care of their own and for continuing to fight oppression, sharing in the struggle even if it didn't touch them. To this day, Trinity's congregation of 8,500 spans the spectrum from public housing residents to powerbrokers including Obama and other celebrities.

Vallmer Jordan, a church member who helped draft the precepts, said they were designed to empower the black community and counter a value system imposed by whites. "The big question mark was racism," he said. "Black disempowerment was an integral part of that historical value system. It became increasingly apparent to me that we black people had not developed our own value system . . . to help us overcome all we knew we had to battle."

He acknowledged that the principle on "middleclassness" was a hard sell, even then.

"There was a hunk of resistance to that principle," Jordan said. But eventually committee members came to understand its intention: "Any black person who identifies himself as middle-class psychologically withdraws from the group and becomes a proponent of strengthening and sustaining the system," he said.

Harris-Lacewell, the Princeton professor, said the "disavowal of the pursuit of middleclassness" is simply an argument against materialism and the pursuit of the American standard of wealth. Many white Christian churches also preach against materialism.

`That's going to resonate'

"If [Obama] can figure out a way to get the sound bite for that," she said, "I actually think that's going to resonate with a lot of people beyond African-Americans."

In his early forays to address the issue of how faith affects his public life, Obama has had a fair degree of success. "If we truly hope to speak to people where they're at--to communicate our hopes and values in a way that's relevant to their own--then as progressives, we cannot abandon the field of religious discourse," he said in a widely praised speech last summer to progressive evangelical Christians.

Later, Obama and conservative Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kansas), another potential presidential contender, received a warm welcome at Saddleback Church, the evangelical megachurch in California.

In addition to attempting to bridge religious divides, Obama now finds himself needing to bridge racial divides--even among blacks. Given his racial heritage and upbringing in a white household, Obama has prompted skepticism among African-Americans who have questioned whether he has enough in common with them to reflect their interests.

Writing in the online magazine Salon, essayist Debra Dickerson summarized this point of view while crediting Obama with potentially opening doors for other non-white presidential candidates. "Barack Obama would be the great black hope in the next presidential race--if he were actually black," she wrote, later adding that he should be considered "an American of African immigrant extraction" and not a descendent of American slaves.

Biden's gaffe

Obama received some unintended support in this regard from Biden just last week. In a newspaper interview, Biden sought to praise him as a worthy opponent. "You got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy" he said in remarks seen by many people as condescending.

The gaffe gave Obama the opportunity to appear magnanimous in the face of an insult. Initially, Obama graciously said Biden "didn't intend to offend" anyone. But shortly after, he issued a statement that highlighted his connection to African-American political leaders who preceded him.

Calling Biden's comment "historically inaccurate," Obama praised Jesse Jackson Sr., Shirley Chisholm, Carol Moseley Braun and Al Sharpton as past presidential candidates who "gave a voice to many important issues through their campaigns, and no one would call them inarticulate."

Chicago Tribune
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 6 Feb, 2007 08:52 am
Interesting articles, guys, thanks.

Bill, this is what I think of the avatar...

As for nuclear power, not sure, can look around. I know that Obama is big on alternative energy sources though, proposed legislation and everything.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Tue 6 Feb, 2007 03:40 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Now I love the idea that Obama would be a "first" for our country, and even more that he doesn't seem to be daring me into it (as said in your Huffington story). Not necessary. If I wind up 50/50, I'd be forced to give him the nod, anyway. Same goes for Hillary, meaning a female candidate (though in all honesty, that would be harder), but the odds of her changing my mind about her are somewhere between slim and none. Yesterday I watched her babble about how if she were President, we wouldn't have went to war... which is 180 degrees from where she stood before, during and even for a while after we went to war...


yep, yep, and yep. Except the part about considering a vote for Hilary if it's 50/50 (or anywhere near that). It would have to be closer to 80/20 before she'd get my vote. I'm excited about Obama, equally excited about the chances of a moderate Republican getting through the primary process - although that remains to be seen. If it was Obama vs Giuliani today, then I'd go with Giuliani. The same race 1.5 years from now, who knows? At 50/50 I'd go with Obama - probably even if I was slightly leaning right. Hopefully they both do well in the primaries and we can still be excited for both of them a 15 months from now.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 6 Feb, 2007 03:48 pm
I was wondering when this would happen:

Obama launches an '07 campaign --to quit smoking

Excerpt:

Quote:
Obama launches an '07 campaign --to quit smoking

By Christi Parsons and Manya A. Brachear, Tribune staff reporters; Christi Parsons reported from Washington and Manya A. Brachear from Chicago
Published February 6, 2007

After struggling to quit smoking in the past, Sen. Barack Obama is trying a cessation aid not available over the counter: public attention.

Obama (D-Ill.) resolved to quit his cigarette habit over the winter holidays, just weeks before his expected presidential campaign would make photographers and reporters an even more regular part of his life.

He said in a Monday interview that, although he has never been a heavy smoker, he has quit for periods over the last several years but then slipped back into the habit. On the cusp of a potential presidential bid seemed the right time to quit for good, he said.

"I've never been a heavy smoker," Obama said. "I've quit periodically over the last several years. I've got an ironclad demand from my wife that in the stresses of the campaign I don't succumb. I've been chewing Nicorette strenuously."
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 6 Feb, 2007 04:02 pm
Pity.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Tue 6 Feb, 2007 07:36 pm
nimh wrote:
Pity.


What's a pity?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2007 08:07 am
snood

Take a look at this... http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9836.html
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2007 05:52 pm
Conservative humor. That's a laugh.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2007 06:50 pm
sozobe wrote:
After struggling to quit smoking in the past, Sen. Barack Obama is trying a cessation aid not available over the counter: public attention.

I love the idea! One of Obama's biggest problem is that he won't have as many marketing dollars as Clinton, McCain, and Giuliani will have. This moves gives him free TV time in the "human interest" slots. Very elegant!
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 8 Feb, 2007 05:11 am
Thomas wrote:
sozobe wrote:
After struggling to quit smoking in the past, Sen. Barack Obama is trying a cessation aid not available over the counter: public attention.

I love the idea! One of Obama's biggest problem is that he won't have as many marketing dollars as Clinton, McCain, and Giuliani will have. This moves gives him free TV time in the "human interest" slots. Very elegant!


You think it's contrived - the whole "trying to quit" story?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 8 Feb, 2007 06:28 am
snood wrote:
You think it's contrived - the whole "trying to quit" story?

Not necessarily. Note that there is no contradiction between "Obama truly wants to quit smoking" and "Obama needs to generate publicity on a shoestring budget". He may well be swatting two flies in one stroke, as we say in Germany. One more reason to like the initiative.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 8 Feb, 2007 06:43 am
May be. Or maybe he's trying to quit smoking, and doesn't have the option of not having the whole world know it. I tried several times before (hopefully) the last time, 3 years ago this July. I personally will give him the benefit of not assigning ulterior motivation to something like this.
Obama's whole candidacy is a rebuke to cynicism in general, and suggesting hucksterism in everything he does is cynical, IMO.
0 Replies
 
 

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