Obama '08?

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Basically, your opinion is that I am covetous, because you say so. This is a false position which I reject, and just a sad attempt on your part to make everyone fit into your worldview, which cannot conceive of motivations other than greed.

Cycloptichorn

ican is onto something here with the covetous business. Cyclops, Democrats started the whole thing about greed, and in fact that is how many of the despots and dictators come to power, they accuse capitalists of greed, and your own hero, Obama loves to talk about greed of businesses, corporations, and people that earn it, but it is you and the liberal Congress, and Obama that are trying to rob the people of what they have earned, to give it away to their voters to earn more votes so that they can maintain power. I say ican is absolutely correct. It is the Democrats that are greedy and covetous of money and of power. They want to take away our rights and liberties so that they can exert more power over the people. And it also involves taking away peoples money so that they can give it away to their voters that will vote for their ability to gain and maintain office or power.

What a load of horseshit. You guys don't care what anyone actually SAYS about their motivations or beliefs; you have pre-conceived notions of why people do things, based on your own ethos, and that's that.

How would you like it if I asked you how you felt about something, and immediately proceeded to call you a liar and claim that you MUST be acting out of some other motivation? Not too good, I suspect.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

what i don't get is this

are you guys against taxes, or do you just want fair taxes, i don't mind paying taxes, and i don't mind that money going to help people less fortunate, but, i think that tax reform is an essential, a fair flat tax with no exemptions, everybody, rich capitalist scumbags (or so i've heard them called) and poor folks pay according to their income

2 Replies

@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

what i don't get is this

are you guys against taxes, or do you just want fair taxes, i don't mind paying taxes, and i don't mind that money going to help people less fortunate, but, i think that tax reform is an essential, a fair flat tax with no exemptions, everybody, rich capitalist scumbags (or so i've heard them called) and poor folks pay according to their income

There's no such thing as a 'fair, flat tax.' Any tax which is flat is inherently extremely regressive.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@djjd62,

A flat tax is regressive, and is not 'FAIR.' Taxes should always based on people's ability to pay it and still "live."

An individual making $10,000/year who pays a flat tax will leave only $9,000 for survival. Do you know how many can survive on $9,000 in the US?

A wealthy individual earning $1,000,000/year who pays the same 10% will have $900,000 to "survive." If his income is based on the opportunities provided him in this country, why shouldn't they pay a greater share of their income to taxes?

If you are capable of playing around with numbers, apply any flat tax rate to a range of income and see if it makes sense to you. You'll find that those earning poverty wages will not be able to survive and provide for their families.

Balance that against the amount our country spends on our military and domestic security, and you'll begin to realize that the wealthier people have more to lose from terrorists and terrorism against the US since their assets are worth much more. They should pay more for our security.

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

There's no such thing as a 'fair, flat tax.' Any tax which is flat is inherently extremely regressive.

The flat tax is flawed, but you have no clue what The FairTax is all about.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

A flat tax is regressive, and is not 'FAIR.'

Correct!

This is why The FairTax plan should be adopted.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

i realize now i didn't mean flat tax

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Basically, your opinion is that I am covetous, because you say so. This is a false position which I reject, and just a sad attempt on your part to make everyone fit into your worldview, which cannot conceive of motivations other than greed.

Basically, your opinion is that you are not covetous, because you say so. This is a false position which I reject, and just a sad attempt on your part to escape the worldview that you are in fact covetous, and cannot conceive of yourself being envious of some that have more than you do..

1 Reply

@djjd62,

Understood.

There is a bit of confusion ... The FairTax Plan is the one
that needs to be adopted because it does away with the IRS.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

A flat tax is regressive, and is not 'FAIR.' Taxes should always based on people's ability to pay it and still "live."
...
the wealthier people have more to lose from terrorists and terrorism against the US since their assets are worth much more. They should pay more for our security.

A flat tax is not regressive. It takes more money from those who earn more and less money from those who earn less. It is a tax based on people's ability to pay and still live.

With a flat tax, wealthier people would pay more tax than the less wealthy. However, both the wealthier people and the less wealthy suffer an equal loss when they lose their lives from terrorists and terrorism against the US. Also, the wealthier are more likely to be targets of terrorists and terrorism against the US and lose their lives than are the less wealthy (e.g., 9/11).

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Quote:

A flat tax is not regressive. It takes more money from those who earn more and less money from those who earn less. It is a tax based on people's ability to pay and still live.

A flat tax most certainly IS regressive, and every single economist agrees with this. As one's income rises, the percentage that one can be taxed and still afford their life goes up tremendously. Therefore, a flat tax is most certainly NOT based on 'ability to pay and still live.'

A family who makes 25k per year, and pays 20% in taxes, falls below the poverty line and can barely make ends meet.

A rich family who makes 2.5 million per year, and pays 20% in taxes, has to put off buying a yacht, perhaps. But not really, if they want to buy it. See the difference?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Forget the flat tax!

Support The FairTax Plan Mr. Green

0 Replies

@H2O MAN,

The fair tax taxes what people spend at the same rate regardless of how much people spend.

A federal flat tax taxes what people earn at the same rate regardless how much people earn.

A federal fair tax is fair if and only if the income tax amendment (Amendment XVI) is repealed AND there are no other federal taxes on what people spend.

A federal flat tax is fair if and only if there are no other federal taxes on what people earn.

Oh by the way, the Constitution, Section 8, requires taxes to be "uniform" throughout the USA--some say "uniform" only means that federal tax rates should be the same regardless of the state in which it is applied, while others say "uniform" means that federal tax rates should be the same regardless of the number of things taxed.

Quote:

The Congress shall have power
To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Definition of common
http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=common&x=30&y=9
Definition of general
http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=general&x=24&y=11
Definition of imposts
http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=imposts&x=28&y=10
Definition of uniform
http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=uniform&x=29&y=8

2 Replies

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

The fair tax taxes what people spend at the same rate regardless of how much people spend.

A federal fair tax is fair if and only if the income tax amendment (Amendment XVI) is repealed AND there are no other federal taxes on what people spend.

Doing away with the IRS is part of The FairTax Plan and always has been.

0 Replies

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Obama was manufactured and sold to the dumb masses. He is a tool.
He is not his own man, he [sic] is working on behalf of those [sic] that created him not for those that voted for him.

Water brain's thought processes are as poor as his writing. There is nothing that backs up these statements.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Quote:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

0 Replies

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

Basically, your opinion is that you are not covetous, because you say so.

And your opinion is that he is covetous, because you say so.

Ever thought of developing a new brain cell, so that the one you have wouldn't be so lonely?

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Obama was manufactured and sold to the dumb masses. He is a tool.
He is not his own man, he is working on behalf of those that created him not for those that voted for him.

There is nothing that backs up these statements.

The fact that the dumb masses voted for him without question backs up my
statements and his is dismal job performance thus far reinforces my statements.

Your critique of my writing skills proves that you are sad and lonely.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

A flat tax most certainly IS regressive, and every single economist agrees with this. As one's income rises, the percentage that one can be taxed and still afford their life goes up tremendously. Therefore, a flat tax is most certainly NOT based on 'ability to pay and still live.'

A flat tax most certainly IS NOT regressive, and MOST economists agree with this.

It is true that as one's income rises, the percentage that one can be taxed and still afford their life goes up tremendously. However, that is irrelevant to whether or not a tax is regressive or not. It is also true that a flat tax is most certainly NOT based on 'ability to pay and still live.' BUT the ability to pay and still live has nothing to do with whether or not a tax is regresssive. A regressive tax is one which taxes the less wealthy at a greater rate than it taxes the more wealthy.

The price of anything in a free market rarely varies with the ability of a person to pay and live. It varies with the ability of the seller to pay his expenses, sell, and make a profit or minimize his losses. There is no logical reason why what one pays for government services should vary with anything other than directly with one's income. If tax rates are too high for the less wealthy, then tax rates should be lowered for everyone to the same rate, and the federal government should reduce its spending. Any other tax rate approach invites corruption and the eventual loss of freedoms, including the freedom to live.

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@H2O MAN,

@teenyboone,
Thank you for telling me what my answer SHOULD have been, how very LIBERAL of YOU!

You SHOULD be ashamed of Obama and his dismal job performance, even his speeches are boring.

#1 - YES, I AM a Liberal and proud of it. It just means that I think ALL Americans can strive to be successful instead of standing around COMPLAINING and WHINING like YOU!

Ashamed of what? I have NOTHING to be ashamed of and PROUD to have voted for President Obama, MISTER President, to you! Do me a favor and get a hint and a life!

1 Reply

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