Obama '08?

@Gala,

I'm sorry Gala. I make a special effort not to ignore your posts.

Where is it?

@spendius,

You wrote about Northern Europe: Show me an art from anywhere else that had perspective in space or in tone and I'll show my arse in Bloomingdale's window.

My Response: Southern Europe-- the Italians. Not exclusively, the Dutch and the Germans had a thing for perspective, but the Italians excelled at most things sfumato.

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@Gala,

It was an affectation Gala. Northern artists went south for the money for a time. It's called the Renaissance.

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@spendius,

Artists will most often follow the money, and there are those that congregate in cities where the famous happen to live. It's not a matter of northern artists always traveling south.

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@Gala,

Gala wrote:

okie, I read your long post about the trials in boot camp and in Vietnam. What if someone told you to "get over it", how would you like it? You'd find it to be ridiculous.

It seems to me if you're not the center of the discussion then there's no discussion worth having. You, big strong man.

I am over it.

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@okie,

okie is one unique fellow; Vietnam didn't phase him, and he's "over it."

Nothing like the killing's field all around him, and it didn't bother him one bit. He came home with his psyche in tact.

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@teenyboone,

teenyboone wrote:

MM: Re-write what YOU think is my opinion, give it a spin and what have you got? SPIN! Get a life!
Okie:
You wrote:

"teeny, you cannot show with evidence that the opposition to Obama is due to racism. There may be a very very small percentage, insignificant I believe, that is due to racism, but it would be from Democrats in this country as much or more than Republicans. Republicans have historically been at the forefront of individual rights ....."

Can you decipher the above? What are you saying? I didn't say any such thing!

teeny, may I remind you that you asserted the opposition to Obama's policies were due to racism. That is what I recall. There is at least this quote, although I think there are more if I spent the time to dig it up. It clearly seems that you have internalized any disagreement with Obama as racist, and you go so far as to say Clarence Thomas hates his blackness, merely because he is conservative. If I haven't read some of your posts, I would find it hard to believe that someone could cling to such a paranoid mindset as you apparently do.
Many posts back, you said this, teeny:
"Else why is there such an anti everything in referece to the 1st Black President? Obama wants bi-partisanship in Washington. Instead, he gets negative everything from the ultra-conservative, far right wing of Republicans and so-called "Blue Dog" Democrats, whatever they are."

Quote:

Since you brought up opposition is due to racism, there's a grain of truth there because for SOME people, they can't stomach a Black in the White House. You tell ME that that, isn't a true statement! You brought it up, remember. I heard on TV yesterday, that Pat Boone, the singer, is calling for people to storm the White House and get all of the "usurpers" out of Our House, so is he calling for a coup of a duly elected President? He didn't name Obama, so who is he talking about? He, (Obama), is the person living there, temporarily. He's serving because the voters put him there.

I have no idea what Pat Boone was talking about, I am not a fan of Pat Boone anyway. Listen, there is no doubt there is some racism in this country, but Obama was elected, he is my president as he is yours, but I oppose his policies because I disagreee with his policies, not because he is black, and I believe the vast majority of the opposition to his policies are political, not racist, and I think you are completely inflating some false paranoia that you apparently live with.

Quote:

Remember, YOU brought up the "R" word! I spoke from MY experience as a person of color. This has become a declaration that there IS some racism in this country, simply because it has been a mantra of those who think minorities in general, are taking over YOUR country! People of Hispanic and Native ancestry have been on the North American continent for thousands of years. Who are you, for that matter, to decide that THEY have no right to be here?

What drivel, teeny! I have lived in New Mexico in the past, and I loved the state, most of my neighbors were hispanic in fact. But if you are talking about illegal immigrants, yes, I am for enforcing immigration laws for the sake of national security and for the country's economic health. If we need more immigration, lets beef up our numbers, but let us enforce the laws to weed out the drug dealers and gangsters for example. I have a relative that had neighbors that were living several per house down the street, selling drugs, until they were busted, but alot of this is very common and it needs to be stopped. It has become a financial and cultural burden on the infrastructure of health care, law enforcement, and the educational system in many many areas of this country.

Quote:

Africans were forcibly brought to this country to toil in the fields, build expansive mansions, be blacksmiths and skilled artisans while the women also worked the fields, tended to their masters offspring, cook their meals and being laundresses and any role slave owners chose for them and the men.

And it was a Republican, Lincoln, that helped bring this to a stop. Let me remind you though that slavery still exists in other places in the world, such as Africa where blacks have enslaved other blacks to this very day.

Quote:

All for no wages, spanning from 1619 to 1865, then sharecropping in the south during Jim Crow, for little or nothing. It wasn't until 1954, when Brown vs. The Board of Education, under the Eisenhower Administration, that the Supreme Court found for minorities that the schools were separate and unequal, catapaulting an unknown Black Lawyer named Thurgood Marshall who was the attorney in this case into the Supreme Court.

If you think that the only Black lawyer in the Supreme Court replacing Justice Marshall is an equal equivalent, you are mistaken. Justice Thomas is a self absorbed, who hates his blackness, has an inferiority complex, thinks he got to the Supreme Court with no help from the Civil Rights movement and is a sad commentary to ALL Black People in America, seeking justice. We'll never get any from him!

Justice Thomas hates his blackness? What nonsense, teeny, I thought you were smarter than that. Where do you get your brainwashing from anyway? Were blacks born to be liberals, or are you only allowed to think a certain way to be black? That is what I am talking about when I say have the guts to leave the liberal plantation.

Quote:

See, now you got me started. Again, visit your library, if you were born after 1970 and borrow a history book on the Civil Rights era of the 1950's - 1975.
It was a gruesome reality for me, because I had no idea how deep racism was/is because I lived in a City. For those living in the rural South, it was a living nightmare of the Klan and Southern law officials, taking the law in their hands, for whatever purpose they felt like. Blacks were beaten on the steps of one courthouse in Alabama, just for trying to register to vote. There is a Parish/County in Louisiana, I never step foot in to this day, where the ruling Judge, a Roman Catholic and confirmed racist fought the Federal Government "tooth and nail" against the integration of the schools.

Yes, and some of the most prejudiced people holding onto segregation were Democrats, teeny, until they realized they could use entitlements to buy your votes.

Quote:

Just Google the name, "Leander Perez", and read up on the treachery and crimes he committed while wearing the black robes of a justice. If there is a God, he's burning in Hell! Please stop accusing me of bringing up the "R" word, because hate and racism is as alive and well, as it ever was.

Never heard of Leander Perez, and I see no reason to google the name. Have you googled Black Republicans yet, or read the links I have provided? Dare to think for yourself, teeny, and quit swallowing the swill from the race hustlers.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Quote:

And it was a Republican, Lincoln, that helped bring this to a stop.

You're about as ignorant a white guy as I've ever had the displeasure to read.
Racism against blacks exist today; Lincoln may have stopped "slavery," but racists like you still exists in America today.

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@spendius,

Quote:

It was an affectation Gala. Northern artists went south for the money for a time. It's called the Renaissance.

Oh, you're so correct--Piero della Francesca, Perugino, Raphael, Leonardo Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, they all migrated to Italy from Northern England.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

okie is one unique fellow; Vietnam didn't phase him, and he's "over it."

Nothing like the killing's field all around him, and it didn't bother him one bit. He came home with his psyche in tact.

He's over it , all right. That's why he writes about it in such detail, in between the lengthly sports metaphors.

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@Gala,

To be honest, I did not see much killing, very very little, and fortunately I never had to participate. This is another myth about Vietnam that has been furthered by the popular media, movies, etc. Sure there was some, and there was more at particular times, such as during the Tet Offensive, but I was not there then, and the area I was in simply did not have alot of action.

I will also give you a bit of advice, anytime you meet somebody that claims to have been in Vietnam and proceeds to tell you a few horrific stories, listen with a healthy skepticism. I do not know why, but there are alot of phony soldiers and phony stories out there. There have been things documented and written about this, I remember a Readers Digest article about this a number of years ago. Also, John Kerry's Winter Soldier event in Detroit, on which he based some of his stuff, has been well documented as largely fraudulant and phony, which Kerry should have known but did not or willfully used even though he knew it was fraudulant, one or the other. I have personally met a few people that I doubted their stories, one in particular that I remember, that I think the guy was merely a bag of wind, he may have been in Vietnam, but the rest of his story was simply too big to swallow.

I actually think some of the vets problems that came back with problems may have been due to drug use. Certainly not all, I had one particular relative that was in the Marines that really did suffer the effects, legitimately. But I will say this, I personally saw a great deal of drug use, in particular pot smoking over there, and the guys that I saw screwed up over there were alot due to the fact they were screwed up in their head maybe before they even got there, they did it to themselves, not what Vietnam did to them. This subject is another subject in and of itself, but I would also bring up the subject of vets from other wars, example World War II, I know of many vets from that war, my dad included, that saw far far more and endured far far more than Vietnam vets ever dreamed of, yet they all pretty much came back and lived very very productive lives, raised families, etc. Even though I am a Vietnam vet, I will say as a group, the Vietnam vet generation I think sometimes is a bunch of crybabies. But then I think it is generational, not necessarily connected to the war. The 60's began the hippie generation, of free drugs, free love, etc., and I think the effects of that permeated the entire culture, of which Vietnam was only a small part of that.

I will shut up about this now, apologies to everyone for talking about this, but I admit that it is a fascinating and interesting subject to me, probably moreso because I had some personal experience with it.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

his subject is another subject in and of itself, but I would also bring up the subject of vets from other wars, example World War II, I know of many vets from that war, my dad included, that saw far far more and endured far far more than Vietnam vets ever dreamed of, yet they all pretty much came back and lived very very productive lives, raised families, etc. Even though I am a Vietnam vet, I will say as a group, the Vietnam vet generation I think sometimes is a bunch of crybabies.

You don't think this has to do with the fact that in Vietnam, so many were drafted against their will and sent to a war they didn't give a **** about?

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclops, I was drafted against my will too. I had graduated from college and was started on my chosen career, and certainly did not want to be bothered with a war half way across the world for a reason that I poorly understood, and neither did I agree with it. I made a choice, I could make the best of it, for the sake of my country, or try to figure something else out. The president that drafted me was LBJ, not a man I admired and not a man that I voted for. But he was the president as determined by our democratically determined process, so I was presented the choice, accept it or not. I chose to accept it and make the best of it, as most everyone did.

I will say this however, it cemented in my mind through the years of meditation, reading, observation, and experience, some of it talking to the Vietnamese people over there, I came to the conclusion that communism is a terrible thing, it is to be despised and opposed, because it is the opposite of what every man wants and deserves at his roots, which is freedom and liberty. I think that experience plays an important part in why I am a staunch conservative today.

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@okie,

okie, You're a damn liar~! You don't know how to mediate anything; this is evidenced from your inability to see the good over the bad about Obama, and your many descriptions of a man you don't even know personally.

Your repeated accusation that he listened and learned from Reverend Wright shows your ignorance.

I find Obama to be exceptionally intelligent, a good husband and father to his children, and tries to satisfy too many conflicting issues that faces him.

Faced with several major crisis in our country when he took office, it's a difficult task for anyone. You can't see the forest for the trees. I'm sure you would have done much better than Obama at the helm.

You need to get over your superiority complex.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

okie, You're a damn liar~! You don't know how to mediate anything

He said meditate.
Not mediate.

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@maporsche,

What does he mean by meditate?

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@cicerone imposter,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediation

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@maporsche,

And how do you see the "self transformation" of okie to be of any benefit for man kind through his "meditation?"

How can you justify his fear of communism to our president and country?

That, I'd like to see.

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@Gala,

Quote:

Oh, you're so correct--Piero della Francesca, Perugino, Raphael, Leonardo Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, they all migrated to Italy from Northern England.

I didn't mean that at all. Northern England wasn't a player. Northern Europe.

I refer you to Spengler's Decline of the West. The index has a good few references to the Renaissance. Those guys you mention were madmen.

Perspective derives from the mathematics of the infinite and of motion. Dynamic space. Such things were banned in Classical times on pain of death. The Renaissance wasn't a renewal of classical art forms. It was a fashionable taste of the elite imported from the north and copied. Then it died out and the Faustian project was hardly touched by it. It reappeared in the Romantic movement. The pre-Raphealites got nearer to classical renewals and that died out as well.

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okie's last two posts impressed me.

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