Obama '08?

@maporsche,

Quote:

I personally don't care about this, but I want to see how the left will spin it and how the right will jump on it.

Just stirring some ****.

Shocking, to see ya doing that. Shocking.

Cycloptichorn

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@maporsche,

This kind of discussion misses the whole point; it's about productivity and efficiency, not about how they "play" or how many times they played "golf."

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@cicerone imposter,

Agreed.

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@hawkeye10,

Thanks to Hawkeye, CI and Advocate for clearing up, what I forgot. Back in the 70's, I belonged to the IBEW, then a powerful union. I was working for NJ Bell Tel. Co. I left after 6 months, returned to college for 2 years and joined AT&T after that, as an administrator. When I was in the union, I was watched like a hawk and the union rep told the engineers I was clerking for, that they were walking a fine line with my then, duties.

A lot were considered administrative while being paid hourly in the union. When I went to work for Bell Labs, it was all administrative for me, even though a part of my group was "bargained for". I lived through 2 strikes from the CWA but the union "caved in" to management. Those union reps were as crooked as the "bosses" they worked for.

1 Reply

@teenyboone,

teeny, after a close relative's friend was personally threatened along with his family during a strike by union thugs a long time ago, for crossing the picket line, I told myself I would never belong to any union. I would be my own union. And I was. I was working for a farmer that assumed upon the fact I would continue to work every summer at the same stagnant rate of pay, so I went and found a better job at higher pay. I found a profession that was relatively free of unions and everything turned out very good. The company I worked for before I became self employed treated me wonderfully, without a union pleading our case.

It is fairly well known that many unions are controlled by the mob, or at least they pull alot of strings, and the union thugs profit more than their members.

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@okie,

So basing his one relative's experience, he's against all unions. Makes a whole lot of sense for people like okie. Throw the baby out with the bath water, because his conclusions are almost always wrong.

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unions were created from need, they served a vital purpose, they forgot their purpose, they died.

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@dyslexia,

Agreed.

You'll see Union membership decline in the decades ahead.

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@dyslexia,

Here in California, the unions are still pretty strong and very big. Even government workers are unionized, and they have many protections not available in commerce. I'll try to find some info on it, and post it here.

Here:

Quote:

California State Union
» AFGE - American Federation Of Government Employees
» AFL-CIO - AFL-CIO
» AFM - American Federation of Musicians
» AFSCME - American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees
» AFT - American Federation of Teachers
» AFTRA - American Federation of Television and Radio Artists
» APWU - American Postal Workers Union
» ATU - Amalgamated Transit Union
» BAC - International Union of Bricklayers and Allied Craft Workers
» BCTGM - Bakery Confectionery Tobacco and Grain Millers International Union
» BLE - Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers
» BMWE - Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employees
» CWA - Communication Workers of America
» GCIU - Graphics Communication International Union
» IAFF - International Association of Fire Fighters
» IATSE - International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees
» IBB - International Brotherhood of Boilermakers
» IBEW - International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
» IBT - International Brotherhood of Teamsters
» ILA - International Longshoremen's Association
» ILWU - International Longshore and Warehouse Union
» IUEC - International Union of Elevator Constructors
» IUOE - International Union of Operating Engineers
» IUPAT - International Union of Painters and Allied Trades
» IW - Iron Workers
» IWW - Industrial Workers of the World
» LIUNA - Laborers International Union of North America
» NALC - National Association of Letter Carriers
» NEA - National Education Association
» NPMHU - National Postal Mail Handlers Union
» NWU - National Writers Union
» OPCMIA - Operative Plasterers' and Cement Masons' International Association
» OPEIU - Office and Professional Employees International Union
» SAG - Screen Actors Guild
» SEIU - Service Employees International Union
» SIU - Seafarers International Union
» UA - United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing and Pipefitting Industry
» UAW - United Auto Workers
» UE - United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America
» UFCW - United Food and Commercial Workers
» UFW - United Farm Workers
» UNITE HERE - Union of Needle trades, Industrial and Textile Employees and Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees
» UPIU - United Paper Workers International Union
» USWA - United Steel Workers
» UTU - United Transportation Union
» UURWAW - United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers and Allied Workers
» UWUA - Utility Workers Union of America

Quote:

About the State Council
The SEIU California State Council is over 700,000 members strong in California, and we are proud to be part of the largest and fastest growing union in the United States, the Service Employees International Union, with over 2.0 million members nationwide.

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@maporsche,

There is no doubt that American Unions arose in response to a clear and legitimate reason.

But as Lord Acton observed, "Power corrupts..."

They are no longer needed by American Labor, and, in fact, are now a force of economic destruction.

They may eventually "die," but not as long as they control vast sums of money and there is a major political party in this country that is willing to do their bidding in return for a large chunk of their change.

With Obama in the White House and Pelosi and Reid controlling Congress, this is their chance to ensure that their power lives on irrespective of their relevancy, and they will push for every seedy sham they can imagine to continue to line the pockets of a relatively small, but powerful, number of parasitic Union overlords.

What is truly disgusting is that they are not fighting for the benefits of their members, but simply the preservation of their power, and Democrats cynically support them while fully appreciating that their postive influence on the lives of Americans has long ceased.

To understand how deep in the Union pocket the Democrats are, one only need listen to the tapes of 2008 candidates Obama and Clinton appearing before the Teamster Bosses and assuring them that if elected President, (with the help of Teamster bucks) they would put an end to the unnecessary restraints imposed upon them by a Federal Government that finally found them to be the crooks they are.

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@cicerone imposter,

There is another area where Obama has more then surpassed Bush.
Bush was hammered his first year for attending so many fundraisers, but he was nothing compared to Obama.

Quote:

Campaigning and raising cash is what Mr Obama does best. Next week's fundraising events in Florida and Virginia will bring to 24 the number of such functions he had headlined since entering office in January. During his first year in office, Mr Bush attended just six fundraisers.

I found that in this article...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/6424419/Barack-Obama-must-stop-campaigning-and-start-governing.html

1 Reply

Wow, 24 dinners, 24 'half-days' on the golf course; I'm beginning to see why he's not getting anything I want him to do done.

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@okie,

I don't have a problem with your statement, but back when labor was cheap during the Industrial Revolution, there were no safeguards or guarantees for ordinary workers. Just study John D. Rockefeller's ascent to billionaire to exploiting workers and if you die on the job, tough! It was the formation of unions that brought workers a living wage, 40 hour work week, the formation of laws protecting children and many other worthy benefits as a result of labor laws, etc.
You certainly can't argue with that, can you? You wouldn't be able to hire yourself out as a "contractor" to any entity, were it not for existing labor laws on the books from someone saying enough! This was when joining and being in a union brought the worker certain guarantees. Today, you're lucky if you're still employed! As a Business student, you have to study the history of business in the United States, England and other European countries. It wasn't pretty or fair for the thousands that perished from unsafe workplaces, low wages and lack of benefits.
If you took employment with a company, let's say, ask you to work out of your specialty and could be deemed as risky or dangerous, where would you go? NLRB? ACLU? Any Union/Lawyer? Wouldn't it be like asking you to commit suicide on the job? Of course it would. So what do you do? You tell me. Unions were once the backbone of this country, protecting workers, mostly factory then expanded to the airlines and railroads, for fair wages and cost of living increases that created the "middle class" as we know it, so don't knock what unions once were. You and I benefited from some poor schmuck that died in a mine cave in, lost an arm or leg in a factory, etc. That's all I'm going to say and sure, where money is involved, corruption follows, ask a rogue cop or politician that feels "entitled"!

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@maporsche,

So now, you "nit-pick" at a man YOU don't think is "qualified", let's say it, BLACK, right? More qualified and educated than the Confederate/McCain, who referred to Mr. Obama as "that one", like he landed from the moon, as "not like us"! You "we're better than you" folks forget, that WE pay taxes and wipe our A$$e$ in the SAME place as you!

For 450 years, before this place became the so-called United States, WE were here, building Washington DC, Boston, New York and toiling in the fields of the South, for FREE! That WE have fought in every war since the Revolution and then some and still don't get recognized for our SERVICE. We bleed and die on the fields of battle, just like you, so who are YOU to say, that Patriotism only comes in one COLOR? If you give the Japanese and Jews of WWII reparations, where in the hell is my 40 Acres, forget the mule, because I can buy a tractor!
450 years and still 2nd class. Where is your mind?

1 Reply

@teenyboone,

teenyboone wrote:

So now, you "nit-pick" at a man YOU don't think is "qualified", let's say it, BLACK, right? More qualified and educated than the Confederate/McCain, who referred to Mr. Obama as "that one", like he landed from the moon, as "not like us"! You "we're better than you" folks forget, that WE pay taxes and wipe our A$$e$ in the SAME place as you!

For 450 years, before this place became the so-called United States, WE were here, building Washington DC, Boston, New York and toiling in the fields of the South, for FREE! That WE have fought in every war since the Revolution and then some and still don't get recognized for our SERVICE. We bleed and die on the fields of battle, just like you, so who are YOU to say, that Patriotism only comes in one COLOR? If you give the Japanese and Jews of WWII reparations, where in the hell is my 40 Acres, forget the mule, because I can buy a tractor!
450 years and still 2nd class. Where is your mind?

Seriously, WTF?

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@mysteryman,

I can't remember anyone complaining about Bush's fundraisers too much. I do remember people complaining about Bush's vacation days and for good reason.

came across this in my search for how much vacation time bush spent during his time as president. Makes a good point.

Quote:

Do you really have a problem with Obama’s time off, or are you just reveling in a chance to criticize him for something?

Because I remember many of you defending Bush’s vacation time, more than any other president at 879 days over his 8 years. It would just be odd for you to defend Bush’s vacation as a needed respite, but criticize Obama’s vacation as… what’s the word… dithering?

For myself, I believe (as I’m sure you do) that a President needs a certain amount of time off, but excessive down time is a sign that he’s not working hard enough. What constitutes “excessive” is a matter of judgment, but 24 rounds of golf over 9 months doesn’t seem that to me.

Does it to you? And if so, why is that excessive, but 83 days of brush clearing in 9 months (Bush’s rate) was a needed respite for a hardworking man?

source

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@revel,

revel wrote:

Does it to you? And if so, why is that excessive, but 83 days of brush clearing in 9 months (Bush’s rate) was a needed respite for a hardworking man?

Both seem excessive to me (and I complained about both); but especially so in the economic environment we're in, and the healthcare bill having troubles.

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@maporsche,

What do you mean, with the Healthcare bill having troubles? Do you even pay attention?

It will pass the House with no problem and is likely to pass the Senate, both with a Public Option. In fact, it's more likely to do so now than at any point in the past few months. What makes you think that Obama injecting himself more into the discussion would have helped this?

Cycloptichorn

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@teenyboone,

teeny, it is a known fact that farming can be one of the most dangerous lines of work there is. I grew up on a farm, learned to drive a tractor at the age of 12, and from then on I was always either driving a tractor or working with some other form of farm work, building fence, putting up hay, milking cows, rounding them up, etc. Fence building is not safe either if you don't know what you are doing. Putting up hay is not safe. Being kicked and charged by livestock is also unsafe, and somewhat common around farms. I distinctly remember being scraped and cut with equipment, wire, and so forth. I also remember driving tractors into washouts, around steep places next to terraces, plus other things, and at times the tractor came close to rolling either sideways or end over end. That was before the age of OSHA demanding roll bars. I personally know of a neighbor that was killed by an implement, another young man lost his life in a hay bailer. I know of a guy that lost an arm in a bailer.

Could safety have been better, sure. Would I have preferred a union to demand safety and rights? Absolutely not. There is no guarantee in life, and I attribute my experiences to teaching me to be sensible and responsible for myself. Even with the narrow escapes I had, I can honestly say I probably came closer to death in automobiles, personally experiencing a couple of rollovers and so forth, also before the day of seat belts.

We now have child labor laws and all the rest of the crap, but which is better, some kid working at a job before the correct age, or kids sitting in front of the TV and experimenting with drugs and sex after school? I prefer the good old days, teeny, and if you wish to draw a parallel, I believe the unions have brought some positive things, but on balance the benefits fall far short of the downside consequences.

I also believe that government regulation of safety has pretty much eliminated the need for a union doing that. I believe unions are mostly parasitic upon the working man and on business. You may see some short term gains, but the long term negative effects are ignored and overlooked. We now go to Walmart and virtually everything there is made in China or some other country besides here. That is a tragedy of mega proportions as regards our economy and culture, I believe, teeeny.

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@maporsche,

Going for a round of golf does not take all day and you don't have to go away to a ranch for it.

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