cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 12:28 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I calls em the way I sees em too! That should be quite obvious.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 12:52 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I was agreeing with you.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 12:58 am
@DrewDad,
Cool

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 06:01 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Fine, call out the negativity, please keep the personal attacks to a mijmum, especially as you have no idea what you're talking about regarding my personal life. You, specifically you, make it hard for others to support or defend your beliefs. You post and act with a level of arrogance and contempt that I find disgusting, regardless if I agree with your posts or not. I've found myself agreeing with things you say but your posts and your attitude towards other posters frustrates me so much that I choose not to post my agreement in order to keep myself disassociated with you on this board. If someone confused yourself and I (like they did you and TKO) I would take it as an insult; not because you're a bad guy, but because your posts make it difficult to agree with you, or even want to converse with you.

It's not just you, I have the same complaints about CI, Drewdad, Setenta, and others.

If your not interested in making friends, then great. Just understand that your posting style and the lack of respect you show others has an impact on the quality of discussions you'll have here as well.

And regarding Obama, if he damn guy would start doing some hints I agree with (like maybe a few of his campaign promises) I'd have a lot more positive things to say. But he hasn't.
revel
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 08:14 am
@maporsche,
maporshe, you opened yourself up for this line of arguments since the very day you announced you voted for Obama but was saying he better not disappoint you in such a manner as to imply you knew he was going to "disappoint" you. Ever since you have hardly let up and it just begs the question as to why in the world you didn't vote for Hillary. Even if you thought Hillary didn't stand a chance you should have went with your convictions.
revel
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 08:17 am
@Diest TKO,
agreed.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 08:31 am
@revel,
Um..I did vote for Hillary. Then I voted for Obama in the general. My 'announcement' was after the general.

I don't mind the arguments against my posts; I'm frustrated and dismayed at the attacks against my person and my character.
maporsche
 
  2  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 08:40 am
@maporsche,
And I'll point out that I'm liking the iphone 'spell checker' less and less, as it takes words like 'thinks' and makes them 'hints'.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 09:10 am
@maporsche,
Very well said.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  4  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 09:46 am
@maporsche,
The spell check on the iphone is annoying. I can't tell you how many dumb ducks I've sent texts to. LOL.

But honestly map, I get it. I really do. You want more and expect more. I think it's good to have high expectations, and you're probably right to light some fires under some asses to make that point to our representatives. There is a point though, were I just feel like you're cynical to a fault where you can't have the patience needed to be content. Obama has worked on many campaign promises. He'll do as many as he can, but giving them the attention they deserve might mean not trying to do them all at once (and certainly not by 9 months).

I'm not going to say that Obama deserved the NPP, or defend the selection, but there is a certain degree of manufactured rage about this. We care about the NPP, but only when it's announced? Where was this concern prior to the announcement? I just think it's phony to act like we care to this degree. Instantly, we know better than a group of people who did think about it prior. Instantly, we're all experts. Instantly, we're all betrayed. I say, everyone should calm down.

I think the real points of this have been shared by both sides and fairly well agreed upon.

1) The announcement was a shock. - Shock because it was undeserved or premature.
2) He cannot turn the prize down. - If he did, the spin would still be the same, and the damage would have already been done. I do not believe as some others might, that this would be perceived as such a humble gesture. It's not as simple as giving it back, and the only reason I see this idea is even thrown out, is to give Obama some sort of dilemma he can't win in.
3) This doesn't help him in anyway. - It's really a curse. Think about it. you thin Obama wants to carry around an award that people don't think he deserves? If you got the NPP today, the news would be swarming around you, wondering who the **** you were and why you got it, and why other's didn't. Do you think you'd feel good showing it to even close friends without feeling like you didn't deserve it? It would almost become something you have to hide.

If you've made up your mind that he hasn't earned it. Then hold him to a standard to earn it. Now and after his time in the WH. Do you think he doesn't want to be able to be proud of it someday?

Everybody, calm down.

T
K
O
maporsche
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 09:58 am
@Diest TKO,
Thumbs up.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 10:00 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

Fine, call out the negativity, please keep the personal attacks to a mijmum, especially as you have no idea what you're talking about regarding my personal life. You, specifically you, make it hard for others to support or defend your beliefs. You post and act with a level of arrogance and contempt that I find disgusting, regardless if I agree with your posts or not. I've found myself agreeing with things you say but your posts and your attitude towards other posters frustrates me so much that I choose not to post my agreement in order to keep myself disassociated with you on this board. If someone confused yourself and I (like they did you and TKO) I would take it as an insult; not because you're a bad guy, but because your posts make it difficult to agree with you, or even want to converse with you.

It's not just you, I have the same complaints about CI, Drewdad, Setenta, and others.

If your not interested in making friends, then great. Just understand that your posting style and the lack of respect you show others has an impact on the quality of discussions you'll have here as well.


Fine with me; I'll own that. I will readily admit that I wrote out of frustration at seeing you post attacks on Obama for the Nth time.

Quote:
And regarding Obama, if he damn guy would start doing some hints I agree with (like maybe a few of his campaign promises) I'd have a lot more positive things to say. But he hasn't.


Look, you gotta keep in mind that the stuff he is trying to do is extremely difficult. He is attempting things that the Dems have failed at over and over again. He spent quite a bit of time and political capital trying to work WITH the Republicans - because he promised he would. He is letting the Senate and House run themselves, because he promised he would. This means that every single thing he has tried to do has taken much, much longer - and been watered down more - than if he went about things in a more authoritarian, top-down way, like Bush did.

Obama's problem, with me, isn't that he isn't following his campaign promises - its' that he IS following them, and that gums up the works in Washington, when the other party is dead-set on opposing you.

A lot of people are pissed about the Stim bill, including you. They are worried about the deficit and the debt. But what the **** was Obama supposed to do? Just start off his new term with the economy spiraling downward, and say '**** it, we aren't doing anything, because hey - can't increase that debt.' The truth is that our economy would be MUCH worse today without that stimulative spending. State governments in particular would have been forced to lay off a LOT more people, including things like cops and firefighters.

Obama was boxed in by a bad situation, a mess left by the outgoing crowd, and made a choice to deal with it. Because of that choice, some have decided that everything he does is wrong. I think that's short-sighted. There were a lot of complaints that the money was going to take too long to be spent; now, it seems as if the recession will last quite some time, and that decision is looking better and better.

We are right on the cusp of major change in Health-care; if Obama passes a bill with a robust public option, it will be a victory significant enough to define his first term. Bush never passed a single Domestic policy this ambitious in 8 years. Now is not the time for continued and constant negativity towards the guy, because he's getting the job done more than any other president before him (in our lifetimes), on the issues that matter to us.

Even more than that - and this goes back to he Nobel prize, for me - is that Obama's role in politics is shifting the center, the same way that Reagan shifted the center to the Right. He defends liberal ideas as good ideas and defends the moral basis behind them. This is important, because it not only provides a clear path forward for the implementation of many of these policies, it shapes the debate for years to come. There is little doubt that Obama is a highly inspiring person to many younger folks, here in America and around the world. The legacy that he leaves behind, if he can find success in some of his proposals, will be a lasting one.

Obama repeated over and over that things would be hard; he made the fact that change doesn't come easily, that you must struggle for it, a central tenet of his campaign. Well, he's elected now, and did you think things were just going to fall in line? I never did. This is what makes the stupid 'messiah' theme so dumb; I never believed that it would be anything other than a dogfight. Entrenched interests will fight to their death to protect what they have in Washington. Obama is not going to be successful if the very people who voted for him go around trashing him all the time. He deserves your support and some patience.

Cycloptichorn
dyslexia
 
  7  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 11:38 am
Obama has been in office for 10 months and hasn't done a damn thing.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obama needs to slow down and not ram through his wanted changes.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 12:22 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Look, you gotta keep in mind that the stuff he is trying to do is extremely difficult. He is attempting things that the Dems have failed at over and over again. He spent quite a bit of time and political capital trying to work WITH the Republicans - because he promised he would. He is letting the Senate and House run themselves, because he promised he would. This means that every single thing he has tried to do has taken much, much longer - and been watered down more - than if he went about things in a more authoritarian, top-down way, like Bush did.

I'm hoping he gets a little more pragmatic; Carter, for example, got too tangled up with his idealism.

Cycloptichorn wrote:
A lot of people are pissed about the Stim bill, including you. They are worried about the deficit and the debt. But what the **** was Obama supposed to do? Just start off his new term with the economy spiraling downward, and say '**** it, we aren't doing anything, because hey - can't increase that debt.' The truth is that our economy would be MUCH worse today without that stimulative spending. State governments in particular would have been forced to lay off a LOT more people, including things like cops and firefighters.

And really, the loss of revenue from lost taxes in an extended depression could very well equal the current deficit spending. With a lot more suffering from the American people.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 12:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Obama is not going to be successful if the very people who voted for him go around trashing him all the time. He deserves your support and some patience.


Bullshit, Obama deserves our support and some patience only when we think that he is right. He is not entitled to squat.
Advocate
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 12:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
Since Obama has been right, he deserves your support.

Here is a letter to the editor in the Chicago Tribune.

Republicans Put Politics Above Patriotism

Terrorist groups, the Taliban and Hamas, are criticizing President Obama for winning the Nobel Peace Prize. So are the Republicans. The Republicans cheered when America failed to land the 2016 Olympic Games, and now they're criticizing the president for receiving an award he did not seek but is still an honor.

It's such a shame that the Republicans' hatred prevents them from taking joy and pride in America. They put politics above patriotism at every turn. It's no wonder that only 22 percent of Americans admit to being Republicans anymore when the party cheers for America to fail and aligns itself with the views of terrorists.

-- Evan Hewer, Chicago
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 01:04 pm
@Advocate,
I believe in free speech, the battle of ideas in the area of public discourse, and the the best IDEAS deserve to win. It is not about the people who propose the ideas, whether they be ideas that we agree with or don't agree with.

Obama is too much about the cult of personality for me not to have doubts about him. His lack of effectiveness so far is also troubling. The disconnect between his words and actions is DEEPLY troubling.
Advocate
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 01:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I believe in free speech, the battle of ideas in the area of public discourse, and the the best IDEAS deserve to win. It is not about the people who propose the ideas, whether they be ideas that we agree with or don't agree with.

Obama is too much about the cult of personality for me not to have doubts about him. His lack of effectiveness so far is also troubling. The disconnect between his words and actions is DEEPLY troubling.


Could you please elaborate. I see Obama as much more than just a personality. Palin, for instance, is just a personality, but not Obama. Obama has had solid accomplishments, and would have had a lot more were it not for the massive campaign of denigration and blockage by the right. I think his actions match his words, however, unlike Bush who is proudly dogmatic, he is open to reconsideration when new facts and arguments warrant this.

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 01:31 pm
@Advocate,
How many examples do you need?? the back room deal with the drug companies, the not closing Gitmo, the slow down on withdrawal in Iraq and doubling down on Bush's Afghanistan war, the support for letting the spooks monitor Americans citizens, the putting corporate interests ahead of the citizens on the financial rescue, selling the stimulus plan as one to rescue the economy but instead using most of it as a goodie bag for his friends and favorite causes, his continued disrespect for capitalism-which he claims that he believes in-with all of the rescues and bail outs.....Can I stop now on how his actions do not match what he promised nor what he claimed he believes in???

The GOP is whack, but that does not make Obama right. There is no reason we can not dispise both of them. Obama still has time to prove that he is what he told us he was, but he has not done it yet, and time is running out.
revel
 
  1  
Sat 10 Oct, 2009 04:02 pm
@maporsche,
Oh, sorry, I was thinking it was during the primary but I stand corrected. Now that you remind me; I remember the conversation about how you wanted for Hillary but settled for Obama because of health care and what not. I fail to see how Hillary would have done any of these things better than Obama has done them.

I was not attacking your character, but merely pointing out that when you did vote for Obama you did do it grudgingly with words like "he better not disappoint" and ever since he became president you have done nothing but gripe about him, hardly gave him any time at all before you did so.

I don't use the spell check here, use the google tool bar one, works pretty good.
 

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