roger
 
  1  
Wed 9 Sep, 2009 11:42 pm
@rabel22,
Really? I recall a three week hospital stay, followed by numerous doctor appointments, physical therapy, an an MRI with not a quibble. The MRI required preapproval.

How was that government plan going to deal with MRIs, again?
rabel22
 
  1  
Wed 9 Sep, 2009 11:48 pm
@roger,
I dident know we had a government plan. But as long as youve got good insurance screw those who dont. I guess they should have been born rich.
roger
 
  2  
Wed 9 Sep, 2009 11:55 pm
@rabel22,
My point is, you haven't the slightest what you were talking about. Did you notice the reference to your prior post? Read what you said, then read the reply. Just trying to be helpful, you know.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 12:03 am
@rabel22,
rabel22 wrote:

I dident know we had a government plan. But as long as youve got good insurance screw those who dont. I guess they should have been born rich.

You might try studying, learning a trade, and earning your own keep instead of stealing it from somebody else. You don't have to be rich. Forget that why don't you?
Rockhead
 
  2  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 12:05 am
@okie,
okie, are you a MAC?

we're taking a poll...

okie
 
  0  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 12:10 am
@Rockhead,
I'm just okie. Whats a MAC anyway? I don't fit into any cookie cutter group, but I will say that I believe I am common sense conservative, I believe in capitalism, freedom, individual rights and individual responsibility. Hows that, is that good enough?

P.S. I believe government should mostly referee, not play the game.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 12:23 am
In regard to the question of "who is Obama, add to the equation Van Jones, the communist radical. The list of radicals seems to be growing, and Obama never rejects these people, he only conveniently distances himself from them in a superficial way whenever he needs to, as they are not viewed as beneficial to his candidacy or now his presidency. But it is increasingly obvious that the Jeremiah Wrights, the Bill Ayers, the Saul Alinskys, the Frank Davis, and the many other radicals such as Van Jones are telling us who Obama is. After all, he never told us himself, we were left to guess at the answer. More and more people are beginning to add 2 and 2 and get 4, and 4 isn't pretty. One thing for sure, Obama is not a uniter, he is a divider, "he" is becoming the number one issue of this administration.
Debra Law
 
  1  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 02:02 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

I think the important or salient point here is "did Obama lie?" Did the heckler act inappropriately, yes in my opinion. But was he correct? I am not sure, I think technically he may be wrong and Obama correct, but practically he was correct and Obama lied. Here are the reasons as I understand it. Using House Bill 3200, it does not explicitly include coverage for illegals, but it also provides no mechanism for establishing or identifying illegals or making sure that only legals are covered. Further, Obama and the Democrats have frequently talked about the 45 million or so uncovered, which everybody knows includes illegals, and this number is the group that they want to provide coverage for, so simple logic follows that their plan is to provide coverage for the people included in that number, as a practical result of their legislative plans, which therefore includes illegals.

So I believe it is entirely logical to assume that Obama is lying when one analyzes the practical results of what he talks about. Actually, Obama does not have anything that he has personally written down, and we as yet do not have anything really tangible to read except House Bill 3200, do we?

Conclusion, in my opinion, Obama lied, which is nothing new or unusual.



HR3200 EXPLICITLY excludes undocumented aliens.

H.R.3200
America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)


Quote:
SEC. 242. AFFORDABLE CREDIT ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL.

(a) Definition-

(1) IN GENERAL- For purposes of this division, the term `affordable credit eligible individual' means, subject to subsection (b), an individual who is lawfully present in a State in the United States (other than as a nonimmigrant described in a subparagraph (excluding subparagraphs (K), (T), (U), and (V)) of section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration and Nationality Act)--

(A) who is enrolled under an Exchange-participating health benefits plan and is not enrolled under such plan as an employee (or dependent of an employee) through an employer qualified health benefits plan that meets the requirements of section 312;

(B) with family income below 400 percent of the Federal poverty level for a family of the size involved; and

(C) who is not a Medicaid eligible individual, other than an individual described in section 202(d)(3) or an individual during a transition period under section 202(d)(4)(B)(ii).

* * *

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.




FreeDuck
 
  1  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 06:40 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

In regard to the question of "who is Obama, add to the equation Van Jones, the communist radical. The list of radicals seems to be growing, and Obama never rejects these people, he only conveniently distances himself from them in a superficial way whenever he needs to, as they are not viewed as beneficial to his candidacy or now his presidency. But it is increasingly obvious that the Jeremiah Wrights, the Bill Ayers, the Saul Alinskys, the Frank Davis, and the many other radicals such as Van Jones are telling us who Obama is. After all, he never told us himself, we were left to guess at the answer. More and more people are beginning to add 2 and 2 and get 4, and 4 isn't pretty. One thing for sure, Obama is not a uniter, he is a divider, "he" is becoming the number one issue of this administration.

I popped in to see if there was discussion of the speech as I missed it. This was the first post I read. The speech must have been very good.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 06:46 am
@Debra Law,
I have also read HR3200, and yes the provision you quoted is there.

BUT, there is no clear explanation of how they are going to enforce it.
An illegal immigrant can get a valid SS number, even though it isnt theirs.

And what about illegal immigrants that have children born in the US?
Their kids are citizens, so are we not going to allow the credits to the parent and let the kid suffer?

OR, are the kids going to have to find a way to seperate their health care from their parents?

There are still to many unanswered questions in this bill for me to support it.
snood
 
  1  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:05 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

I have also read HR3200, and yes the provision you quoted is there.

BUT, there is no clear explanation of how they are going to enforce it.
An illegal immigrant can get a valid SS number, even though it isnt theirs.

And what about illegal immigrants that have children born in the US?
Their kids are citizens, so are we not going to allow the credits to the parent and let the kid suffer?

OR, are the kids going to have to find a way to seperate their health care from their parents?

There are still to many unanswered questions in this bill for me to support it.


If things remain status quo, the illegals can still do everything you say.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:09 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

I have also read HR3200, and yes the provision you quoted is there.

BUT, there is no clear explanation of how they are going to enforce it.


How is it enforced now for medicare and medicaid?

Quote:
An illegal immigrant can get a valid SS number, even though it isnt theirs.

Yes, but they usually obtain an ssn in order to work, not in order to file taxes, which they would have to do to get a tax credit.

Quote:
And what about illegal immigrants that have children born in the US?
Their kids are citizens, so are we not going to allow the credits to the parent and let the kid suffer?

OR, are the kids going to have to find a way to seperate their health care from their parents?

We already do separate children's health care from their parents. SCHIP does that and, I believe, each state implements their own version of that.

Quote:
There are still to many unanswered questions in this bill for me to support it.

It's not my favorite bill either. I think it's an overly complex solution -- purposely so. But I don't guess I'm going to get exactly what I want.
revel
 
  2  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:20 am
Quote:
How is it enforced now for medicare and medicaid?




Quote:
Critics say there is no way to enforce the ban on subsidies for undocumented workers, since the Democratic majority in the House turned back a Republican effort to explicitly stiffen citizenship checks. But Medicare and Medicaid already require those enrolled to provide "a substantial number of documents" to show they're U.S. citizens or legal residents, said Henrie Treadwell, a professor of community and preventive medicine at Atlanta's Morehouse University medical school.




source
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:23 am
@revel,
Thanks, revel.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:52 am
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck, Good answeers; none of us (or the majority of us) are never going to agree 100% of anything our government does, but we must agree that this country needs to have a universal health care system. We are the laggards in this area of all developed countries, and none of those other countries have gone bankrupt from it. Even in some pooreer devveloped countries where they provide universal health care, they are doing the right thing for their citizens.

On top of all that, most of the negative bs that's been being spread were from the conservatives and health insurance industry; why can't people see the motivations behind their lies and innuendos (scare tactics)?

People are trying to defeat something that's good for our country; they are the ignorant and ill-informed.

mysteryman
 
  1  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:54 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
People are trying to defeat something that's good for our country; they are the ignorant and ill-informed.


Sort of like when Bush tried to PARTIALLY privatize SS.
His opponents went nuts and came up with some of the stupidest reasons and doom and gloom scenarios.
The same thing is happening now.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:55 am
@Debra Law,
okie has no skill in reading and comprehension as been proven often enough to know his reading skills are nil.

His brain has been forever tarnished with the conservative lies and innuendos that has no place in reality; the guy is a total loser.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 08:52 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Sort of like when Bush tried to PARTIALLY privatize SS.
His opponents went nuts and came up with some of the stupidest reasons and doom and gloom scenarios.
The same thing is happening now.

Yeah... and then we had an economic meltdown which sort of proved the doom and gloom possibility.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 09:17 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
People are trying to defeat something that's good for our country; they are the ignorant and ill-informed.


Sort of like when Bush tried to PARTIALLY privatize SS.
His opponents went nuts and came up with some of the stupidest reasons and doom and gloom scenarios.
The same thing is happening now.


Considering how bad our market has performed over the last year, I'm surprised that anyone would bring this up as if it were a good idea. Hundreds of millions of Americans would have lost large amounts of money in the stock market when it went down last September. The 'doom and gloom' scenarios we posited took less than 4 years to materialize.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  0  
Thu 10 Sep, 2009 10:04 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Which is a better investment, in the business world, or in the U.S. Government? Which one is in bigger financial trouble now?
 

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