Obama '08?

@revel,

It was just that we went into Afghanistan, but it was very stupid to stay and occupy the country.

@Advocate,

If it was just when we went into the country, it is just now to stay in the country to continue to fight the enemy (both AQ and the Taliban) who has regrouped while we have had most of our resources and energy in Iraq.

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got a tiger by the tail.

i'm just now having doubts about afghanistan. unfortunately, i feel like the afghan people either don't see their possibilities, or they don't care enough to do much. and the underlying religious zealotry has many afraid to speak up, especially women.

i dislike the taliban immensely, and have since seeing an underground documentary in the late 90's about them. taking women out to a soccer field and beheading them. just like our good friends the saudis. Confused

so for that reason i'd love to see them either dead or... well. dead.

but if we are back in the same situation as vietnam and iraq where we can't really trust the locals, i don't see much point in staying and getting more americans killed or spending **** loads of money so they can just blow it up again.

the russians were there for a decade and still got nowhere with over a 100,000 men.

maybe we would be better of using more of a intelligence first, and special forces teams approach. i dunno.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

Everything you and others are posting confirms what I said...Afghanistan will be Obama's Vietnam.

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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/browse/

I find this ^^^ link, in combo with http://www.factcheck.org/ useful in evaluating what's going on.

Of course, I don't believe anyone about anything. These links help me figure out why.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Everything you and others are posting confirms what I said...Afghanistan will be Obama's Vietnam.

which is why for the first time, i'm actually considering that the u.s. should take our stuff and get the hell out. mcchrystal said that there isn't a miltary win to be had. but now he's supposedly going to ask for 20,000 more people. wth?

like i said before, how does an army conquer mist?

you did say it was unwinnable, or am i thinking of someone else?

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@mysteryman,

You might be right about Obama. But I will be very dissapointed if he turns out to be that foolish. We have nothing to gain staying in that country.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

like i said before, how does an army conquer mist?

you did say it was unwinnable, or am i thinking of someone else?

isn't that pretty much the theme of hamburger's Afghanistan thread?

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One of the major reasons we need to get out of Afghanistan is that staying longer will only delay what is inevitable; Iraq is a very good example of our six years in that country after losing over 4,000 of our military and 100s of billions on a war that did not make our country more secure. The terrorism there continues.

Quote:

Suicide bombings kill at least 17 outside Baghdad

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@Advocate,

That's true, because the Arabs see us as occupiers of one of their countries in the Middle East, and they see us as intruders.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

but if we are back in the same situation as vietnam and iraq where we can't really trust the locals, i don't see much point in staying and getting more americans killed or spending **** loads of money so they can just blow it up again.

Yes, but consider that the locals also don't trust. I know, from a couple of people I trust, that in Vietnam most of the citizens were more afraid of us than the Viet Cong.

On the other hand, we should really consider the effect of having a Taliban sanctuary on the border of a nuclear armed nation with a government that could be charitably described as shaky.

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@roger,

roger wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

but if we are back in the same situation as vietnam and iraq where we can't really trust the locals, i don't see much point in staying and getting more americans killed or spending **** loads of money so they can just blow it up again.

Yes, but consider that the locals also don't trust. I know, from a couple of people I trust, that in Vietnam most of the citizens were more afraid of us than the Viet Cong.

On the other hand, we should really consider the effect of having a Taliban sanctuary on the border of a nuclear armed nation with a government that could be charitably described as shaky.

which is why it's important to work with pakistan. it is shaky and not likely to become stable quickly. and they still have a bigger beef with india than they do with the taliban. it could go up on either count.

as you say, on the other hand....

till now, i've supported the afghanistan action. but the new commander doesn't sound real hopeful. i might be re-enthused by seeing a concerted effort with pakistan to squeeze the taliban out of existence, but the problem with this kind of war, is that we have no real way of knowing just who the enemy is.

it's a tough call.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

It's really all not difficult to remove ourselves from Afghanistan. The biggest problem lies in the fact that the US takes responsibility where the world community needs to concern itself. The problems of Afghanistan is much closer to Europe where they have essentially let us take over their responsibility. They're smart, and we're dumb! Let Europe take over; it's in their neighborhood, not ours.

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@cicerone imposter,

Considering the reaction of the conseratives to the persidents speach to the school kids what do you think thier reaction would be to the president pulling out of afganistan. Personally I dont give a shyt what they think but the chicken shyt democrates certainally do.

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@rabel22,

rabel, The war in Afghanistan is futile; it's already been six years, and we don't even know Osama bin Ladin is even alive. Their ability to move beyond the Afghan-Pakistan border is an almost impossible task for them. Let the world community get involved in their war against the Taliban, because more of their countries have been affected by them. Look at what's happening in Iraq; we've pulled out our troops, and we still have our soldiers getting killed, and terrorism coming back to pre-war levels. All that investment by our country seems like a total waste; why repeat that in Afghan?

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

..The biggest problem lies in the fact that the US takes responsibility where the world community needs to concern itself....

the old phrase, "america's not the worlds policeman" could make a comeback.

i agree with you, though. and it's really bizarre how china and russia couldn't give a toot. it's not like ordinance can distinguish eye shapes or Byzantine steeples.

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@rabel22,

I think that we need to somehow have a dialogue with the Talaban. They are Afghans, control about half the country, and may not be exactly in love with al-Qaida. Let's let Hillary earn her money.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

Why should China or Russia "give a toot?"

If the Islamists were rational, and their leaders were anything other than power mad maniacs, they would see China and Russia as much greater threats to Islam than the US, but, of course, they are not.

America is their target because it is able to invoke envy in their pathetic minions, which obviously is a greater motivator than the actual track records of the three nations as respects religious freedom and Muslims in particular.

It is incredibly ironic that so many American Liberals can be so cynical about their own government, but foolishly naive about the rest of the world.

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@revel,

You may take issue with the phrase "cut and run," but that is what your friends are advocating, and the consequences of such action will be the same if you name it "strategic withdrawal," of any other euphemism politic-speak can conjure.

You know revel, it's OK to disagree with your confreres even if they chide you for it.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Why should China or Russia "give a toot?"...

maybe you should have read the rest of the post before going all finn.

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