maporsche
 
  1  
Wed 26 Aug, 2009 03:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I believe Obama is fiscally irresponsible.
I worry about our economic future.


I agree, and since his repeated claim to fiscal responsibility is probably 80% of the reason I voted for him over McCain; I am quite disillusioned by his presidency.

In my mind (thus far) Obama is simply a liar.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 26 Aug, 2009 03:40 pm
@joefromchicago,
okie has a tendency to forget history in all its forms, and often ends up contradicting himself by not being able to relate the similarities and the differences between Bush and Obama. He should be a laughing stock on a2k, but many people still seem to entertain in his ignorance.
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 26 Aug, 2009 04:56 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
In my mind (thus far) Obama is simply a liar.


He's quoted on our News as saying he is "heartbroken" to learn that the guy who left Mary Jo to her fate to save his ass has passed away, somewhat overweight, at 77.

Does anybody think he is being honest using "heartbroken"?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Wed 26 Aug, 2009 06:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This is very strange. Okie seemed quite incensed about Obama's call for national service in the spirit of 9/11 -- until, that is, he found out that it was actually GWBush's call for national service in the spirit of 9/11. I guess it's true what they say: IOKIYAR.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 26 Aug, 2009 06:57 pm
@joefromchicago,
That's the problem with okie; he doesn't know when to shut up! Continually makes a fool of himself; guy has no pride.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Wed 26 Aug, 2009 10:59 pm
@joefromchicago,
I think Obama's call to service is quite different, radically different than Bush's. For instance, the National Civilian Community Corps would be one organization, which I think represents a boondoggle, and could it possibly be what Obama is talking about perhaps to turn something like this into some kind of para-military organization? Obama said it, not me, so apparently thats what he wants, whether it be the NCCC or some other weird organization he has planned, and he wants it to be every bit as powerful and funded as the military. I thought libs hated military spending?

Speaking of strange, now that is strange, chicago joe.

mysteryman
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 05:48 am
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
IOKIYAR.



???????
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 06:35 am
@okie,
So, okie, you seem to be concerned about the possibility of a parallel military that is not under the same command and control as the US military and that might not be loyal to the US but rather some political faction or person. I wonder how you feel about Blackwater.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 06:42 am
@maporsche,
map - I don't understand what would need to happen for you to be happy. You're kind of cynical about your politics. I'm not sure how you'd be happy with anyone, Obama McCain, or otherwise.

What's your expectation in terms of milestones for a president in for 7 months?

T
K
O
mysteryman
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 06:44 am
Well, well, well, this is interesting...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-rendition22-2009aug22,0,1840939.story?track=rss

Quote:
Reporting from Alexandria, Va. - A Lebanese citizen being held in a detention center here was hooded, stripped naked for photographs and bundled onto an executive jet by FBI agents in Afghanistan in April, making him the first known target of a rendition during the Obama administration.

Unlike terrorism suspects who were secretly snatched by the CIA and harshly interrogated and imprisoned overseas during the George W. Bush administration, Raymond Azar was flown to this Washington suburb for a case involving inflated invoices.

Azar, 45, pleaded guilty Tuesday to conspiracy to commit bribery, the only charge against him. He faces a maximum of five years in prison, but a sentence of 2 1/2 years or less is likely under federal guidelines.


Of course, the FBI and the Justice Dept say that they didnt do anything wrong, that everything they did was legal.
Thats what the CIA claimed also, and the left blasted them.

So now, its the Obama admin doing it.
Is it still ok to do?
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 06:56 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Of course, the FBI and the Justice Dept say that they didnt do anything wrong, that everything they did was legal.
Thats what the CIA claimed also, and the left blasted them.

So now, its the Obama admin doing it.
Is it still ok to do?

You don't see a difference between being arrested on a warrant and transferred to the US to stand trial, and being taken to a black site to be tortured with no legal rights, no charges, no trial, etc...

If his claims are true then it certainly seems that the hooding and nakedness were unnecessary and extreme, but at the end of the day he has a lawyer and access to our courts to petition for redress. Not so for those kidnapped by the CIA and taken to black sites.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 07:00 am
@Diest TKO,
Maporsche explained to me one day that he was for Hillary but voted Obama hoping Obama wouldn't disappoint (think I got that about right?). As near as I can tell he went into this expecting the worse, looking for the worse and has seen the worse in his own eyes.

To quote a biblical verse, "what went you out into the desert to see?" (Mat. 11:7)

There are some things I am disappointed about, my disappointment stems around Obama carrying on some of Bush's foreign/detainees policies. The economic mess he inherited and I think he is trying to do his best to turn things around.

It seems the loudest critics about the stimulus bill have been the ones to turn around and take credit for the jobs and programs it created in their home towns, take Mitch McConnell for instance. (I deeply dislike that guy with a passion, on it even surpassed what I felt for Bush)

Quote:
Yesterday, Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) demanded a halt to stimulus spending, saying money from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act should be diverted to paying down the deficit. McConnell, who lead the opposition to the stimulus in the Senate, has been an ongoing critic. “You do have to wonder, though, whether the stimulus has had any impact at all,” mused McConnell earlier this month on Fox News. A McConnell spokesman recently summed up the senator’s sentiment, noting, “By any measurable index, the stimulus package has been a failure.”

But despite McConnell’s steady stream of criticisms and demands that money stop flowing to projects, he has been a vocal champion of the stimulus in his home state.

Yesterday " the same day he asked for Recovery Act money to be diverted " McConnell and Rep. Ben Chandler (D-KY) toured a construction site at the Blue Grass Army Depot in Madison County, Kentucky. The facility, which is used to contain and destroy chemical weapons compiled during the Cold War, is in desperate need of repair and has leaked Sarin gas as recently as last year. McConnell quickly took credit for the new construction, noting that he and Chandler had inserted an additional $5 million into the 2010 budget. McConnell bragged:

“This is going to be a source of significant employment. At the peak, we could have up to 600 people working on this, and we believe the substantial majority of those workers will be Kentuckians.”

However, McConnell conveniently forgot to mention that even more additional funds for facility construction were awarded through the stimulus. A Defense Department report states that $5,876,000 has been allocated from the Recovery Act to the Blue Grass facility for repairs. Chandler voted for the stimulus.

It’s not the first time McConnell has championed projects funded by the “failed” stimulus to his constituents. When Kentucky put forth a request for advanced battery technology funds from the stimulus, McConnell lauded the effort to ask for more money as “a major victory for the commonwealth of Kentucky” that would “allow the citizens of Kentucky to play a key role in accelerating America’s independence on foreign sources of oil.” At a town hall meeting last week in London, KY, McConnell slammed President Obama and his economic policies. But he then sheepishly added, “I hope London will get some of” the stimulus money.

Economic hypocrisy may be one of the lasting legacies of McConnell. Though he is claiming to oppose many of Obama’s reforms because of a principled sense of fiscal conservatism, as the New York Times has noted, McConnell won reelection last year on a platform boasting of his ability to bring back “old-fashioned pork” to his state.


links at the source

I think democrats in congress ought to forget about republicans and concentrate on the compromising with the blue dogs to get the health care reform bill passed. A couple of years from now, the proof will be in pudding and democrats will either be able to take full credit for it or they will have to take the blame if it turns out to be a mess. But they should muster some courage and pass it regardless of the republicans or trying to win the message war with the public. According to most polls the public wants the option to pick a government program they are just leery about on account of all the misinformation that has been put out by the insurance lobbyist and shrills of the republican party.
revel
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 07:02 am
@mysteryman,
I am not sure about the necessity of stripping him naked and putting a hood on him, that seems to be extreme and not ok either, but the rest what freeduck said.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 10:26 am
@revel,
revel, I would agree with you, but there's still one major hurdle that's not been explained very well; how much is this health plan going to cost, and how are they going to pay for it? I agree 100% with the idea of an overhaul of our health care system in this country, because we already spend the most on health care, and the cost keeps increasing at untenable rates where it becomes more difficult for companies and individuals to afford health insurance. Something must be done, but it must be done right, or the cure can turn out to be worse than the "disease" of higher cost.

This administration has lacked communicating the plan consistently with the same message or how the health plan will work.
okie
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 10:43 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

revel, I would agree with you, but there's still one major hurdle that's not been explained very well;

Haven't you heard, its going to actually save us money! Good grief, ci, where have you been?
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 10:44 am
I have noticed that the most obnocious and insulting people who are against the medical program are people who are over 65 and have access to medicare. Dosent this seem to be a case of Ive got mine so screw the rest of you?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 10:47 am
@rabel22,
not really, I'm thinking the people most vulnerable are also the people most easily influenced to scare-mongering.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 10:47 am
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:

So, okie, you seem to be concerned about the possibility of a parallel military that is not under the same command and control as the US military and that might not be loyal to the US but rather some political faction or person. I wonder how you feel about Blackwater.

I have not studied Blackwater. Isn't it a civilian security contractor to do work for us in foreign countries? Good grief, whats the problem? Even here in this country, there are many security firms that contract with for example shopping malls, to protect their private property. That is worlds apart from some kind of government civilian security force.
dyslexia
 
  2  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 10:50 am
@okie,
Quote:
I have not studied Blackwater
that pretty much covers everything okie posts.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 27 Aug, 2009 10:53 am
@dyslexia,
Even when okie claims to have "studied" something, he usually ends up interpreting them wrong. I'm not aware of another individual (on this planet) that has the same talent.
0 Replies
 
 

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