H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:20 pm



I imagine that Cyclotroll has been arrested for disorderly conduct, being
belligerent and basically for making a liberal spectacle of him or herself.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:21 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Obviously, the cop did not, b/c Gates was let go without charges. Are you claiming that all arrests are predicated by compelling reasons to do so? That would be pretty foolish of you.


All arrests? No, just this one. The cops did not drop the charges, the DA office did. It's not up to the cops to drop charges, merely make the arrest and prove the case. I think that if/when they release the tapes of the 911 call and the dispatch conversations that the truth will come out of Mr gates proving himself to be a jerk.

Quote:
I read both Gates' account of what happened, and the police report. I assume the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Did you read Gates' account of what happened? It doesn't seem so.


Skip Gates Speaks

Yes, I read it. He skips a lot of what officer Crowley said in his report. I am sure he believes himself to be an innocent victim. Most perps do.

Quote:
I do not believe that all Conservatives are in fact closeted racist homosexuals, so this is a pretty inaccurate statement on your part. However, it is pretty clear that the Republican party uses Homophobia and Racism in order to whip up Conservatives into voting for them.

I think it's pretty clear that I hit a nerve on that last part, but you won't ever admit it, so why don't we just let it go with this: the cops acted stupidly, just like Obama said. They didn't have to arrest Gates, they could have worked to de-escalate the situation. They did not. Whether or not it had anything to do with race is immaterial, other than the fact that the Conservatives of America cannot wait to use any issue in which it seems a white person is being accused of racism or racist behavior as a tool to attack the Democratic party, and stoke the flames of racial division.

Cycloptichorn


It's Gates that has made this an issue about Race, not conservatives. We have enough reasons to attack the democrats that this one barely registers beyond Obama's participation in the matter. He should have had something on his teleprompter telling him what to say. I am sure that if Bush had said something similar you libbies would be jumping all over him and don't try to deny it.

The cop is an expert in the concept of racial profiling. He teaches it and has studied it. Gates picked the wrong cop at the wrong time to play his race card.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:24 pm
@McGentrix,
And you believe all the charges brought about by cops against blacks are legit?
Yankee
 
  -2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Rolling Eyes
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:28 pm
@Yankee,
It's because you have no idea about race relations between blacks and cops in this country. Even if you did, you would still ignore the obvious.

From CBS News:
Quote:
Ogletree said Gates showed his driver's license and Harvard ID - both with his photos - and repeatedly asked for the name and badge number of the officer, who refused. He followed the officer as he left his house onto his front porch, where he was arrested.


When a citizen asks a police officer for ID, it's only proper for the police to comply.
kickycan
 
  4  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:31 pm
Obama should have stopped talking right after he said, "I don't know all the facts...". As he was answering the question I knew this was going to come back to bite him in the ass. Stupid move, Big O. By my count, that means that he's only 7,373 stupid moves away from catching up to George W Bush.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:53 pm
@kickycan,
kickycan wrote:

Obama should have stopped talking right after he said, "I don't know all the facts..."



I agree an if Obama had any common sense he would go on national TV and apologize for acting stupidly.

Bush was definitely sharper and more experienced than the community agitator now in the white house.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:53 pm
@kickycan,
I don't know of any politician who can stop talking...when it's wise to do so.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:58 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:

All arrests? No, just this one. The cops did not drop the charges, the DA office did. It's not up to the cops to drop charges, merely make the arrest and prove the case. I think that if/when they release the tapes of the 911 call and the dispatch conversations that the truth will come out of Mr gates proving himself to be a jerk.


Do you think it's common, for DA's to drop charges for which there is compelling reason to believe the person is guilty? I assure you, it is not.

Let me make it perfectly clear, that I do believe Gates was acting like a jerk. Now, he claims he was intimidated by the officer's behavior and demeanor; I can totally see that being the case. But that's really immaterial. It's not against the law to be a jerk to a cop, in one's own home, when the cop has no reason to believe you have committed a crime. After Mr. Gates showed the cop his ID, that should have been the end of it - no matter whether Gates was being a jerk or not.

Quote:

Yes, I read it. He skips a lot of what officer Crowley said in his report. I am sure he believes himself to be an innocent victim. Most perps do.


Just as most cops believe that they are in the right.

I would note that Crowley's account is much longer and more detailed than the police report; the police report glosses over a bunch of events and wraps the whole thing up in a few paragraphs.

I would ask you to answer this question - why would the cop refuse to provide his name and badge number? To the best of my knowledge, cops are usually required to provide this information when requested by a citizen. It is a long-standing tradition here in America that we do not have faceless, nameless police. The refusal on the part of the officer to do so without a doubt represents a failure of duty on his part - which was stupid.

In fact, In Massachusetts, officers are required by law to provide an identification card when requested by citizens. Crowley failed to do this.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98d.htm

Quote:

It's Gates that has made this an issue about Race, not conservatives. We have enough reasons to attack the democrats that this one barely registers beyond Obama's participation in the matter. He should have had something on his teleprompter telling him what to say. I am sure that if Bush had said something similar you libbies would be jumping all over him and don't try to deny it.

The cop is an expert in the concept of racial profiling. He teaches it and has studied it. Gates picked the wrong cop at the wrong time to play his race card.


You weren't there, you have no idea what the cop said or did, or his attitude towards Gates. The fact that he has a history of teaching about racial profiling is immaterial; Gates has a history of infuriating other Black academics by defending whites in situations such as this. Are we to believe, that based on Gates' history, he could not possibly be guilty of anything wrong in this case?

I think a lot of this speaks to the difference in experience between Blacks and Whites when it comes to dealing with police in America. Whereas you or I probably would have been much less intimidated in such a situation, it is not inconceivable that a black man would have had different experiences and would feel differently about such things.

To sum it up:

- Gates presented his ID, with address on it, so that really should have been the end of that.
- The cop, according to Gates, acted in an intimidating manner and refused to identify himself when requested. How was Gates to even know that the guy was a real cop? This is a major failing on the part of the officer.
- Gates proceeded to act like a real jerk and escalate the situation, which may or may not have had anything to do with race, we'll never know.
- The officer, angry at being yelled at, used a false pretense to arrest Gates for no good reason. They should have just left the premises; there was no compelling reason to arrest Gates other than the hurt feelings of the officer. This is an abuse of power, and as Obama stated, 'Stupid.'

You state,

Quote:
Gates picked the wrong cop at the wrong time to play his race card.


But, that's bullshit. It is immaterial what Gates said to the officer. He could have ranted about the officer being motivated by aliens or anything similarly foolish. None of that is reason to arrest him on false pretenses, and that is exactly why he was let go by the DA just a few hours later.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:00 pm


Obama Now Says He Should Have Chosen Words More Carefully in Reacting to Prof's Arrest

Obama racially profiled the arresting officer.
0 Replies
 
Yankee
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:08 pm
Obama calls white policeman who arrested scholar
Jul 24 02:53 PM US/Eastern

"I could've calibrated those words differently."

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama has called the white policeman who arrested black Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. The president says he believes the sergeant to be an outstanding police officer.

The president said Friday that he continues to think both the officer, Sgt. James Crowley, and Gates overreacted during the incident"but Obama also faulted his own comments.

Making an impromptu appearance at the daily White House briefing, Obama told reporters: "I could've calibrated those words differently."

The president caused a stir when he said at a prime-time news conference earlier this week that police in Cambridge, Mass., had "acted stupidly" by arresting Gates.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WASHINGTON (AP)"The White House says the media's "obsessions" are keeping alive President Barack Obama's comments about the arrest of a Harvard scholar seen trying to get into his own house.

Asked whether Obama regretted commenting on the matter, spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters that the president probably would regret distracting the media with "obsessions."

Gibbs says Obama has "great respect" for police officers and understands what a hard job they have.

He also says Obama has said most of what he's going to say on the matter.

When questioned Wednesday night about the incident, Obama said the Cambridge, Mass., police had "acted stupidly."

In an interview a day later, he said "cooler heads should have prevailed."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99L06280&show_article=1

EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG.
0 Replies
 
Yankee
 
  -1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
It is immaterial what Gates said to the officer. He could have ranted about the officer being motivated by aliens or anything similarly foolish.


Now you can see why you are all alone in your biased opinion of the facts.

At least Obama is man enough to admit he used poor language.

What about you?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:11 pm
@Yankee,
Yankee wrote:

Quote:
It is immaterial what Gates said to the officer. He could have ranted about the officer being motivated by aliens or anything similarly foolish.


Now you can see why you are all alone in your biased opinion of the facts.

At least Obama is man enough to admit he used poor language.

What about you?


I can't even tell what you believe my opinion of the facts to be, let alone apologize for said opinion. I have clearly stated that I believe both that Gates was being a jerk, AND that the cop acted inappropriately in arresting him. Whether the arrest had anything to do with race, the reaction amongst Conservatives is predicated entirely upon it; in predictable fashion.

Obama made the classic politician's mistake: he told the truth. The arrest WAS stupid.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:13 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I would ask you to answer this question - why would the cop refuse to provide his name and badge number? To the best of my knowledge, cops are usually required to provide this information when requested by a citizen. It is a long-standing tradition here in America that we do not have faceless, nameless police. The refusal on the part of the officer to do so without a doubt represents a failure of duty on his part - which was stupid.


According to the officer, he gave his name 3 times but Gates was shouting over him. As stated in the police report on page 2.

Officer rebuts Gates’ account of arrest incident

Quote:
In an exclusive one-on-one interview with television station WHDH that TODAY aired Friday, Sgt. James Crowley, an 11-year veteran of the Cambridge Police Department, also said he was aware when he arrested professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. that it would be seen as controversial and bring unwanted attention on him. But, he insisted, Gates’ aggressive behavior left the officer with no choice.

“I really didn’t want to have to take such a drastic action because I knew it was going to bring a certain amount of attention, unwanted attention, on me. Nonetheless, that’s how far professor Gates pushed it and provoked and just wouldn’t stop,” Crowley said.


More at link above.

Quote:
You weren't there, you have no idea what the cop said or did, or his attitude towards Gates.


Neither were you, yet you haven't let that stop you from blaming the officer.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:19 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Quote:
I would ask you to answer this question - why would the cop refuse to provide his name and badge number? To the best of my knowledge, cops are usually required to provide this information when requested by a citizen. It is a long-standing tradition here in America that we do not have faceless, nameless police. The refusal on the part of the officer to do so without a doubt represents a failure of duty on his part - which was stupid.


According to the officer, he gave his name 3 times but Gates was shouting over him. As stated in the police report on page 2.

Officer rebuts Gates’ account of arrest incident

Quote:
In an exclusive one-on-one interview with television station WHDH that TODAY aired Friday, Sgt. James Crowley, an 11-year veteran of the Cambridge Police Department, also said he was aware when he arrested professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. that it would be seen as controversial and bring unwanted attention on him. But, he insisted, Gates’ aggressive behavior left the officer with no choice.

“I really didn’t want to have to take such a drastic action because I knew it was going to bring a certain amount of attention, unwanted attention, on me. Nonetheless, that’s how far professor Gates pushed it and provoked and just wouldn’t stop,” Crowley said.


More at link above.


'Sgt. Crowley' is not an appropriate answer to a request for identification, and it doesn't comply with MA state law - as I clearly pointed out in my last post. Anyone can put on a police uniform and identify themselves as 'sgt xxx'; there is a reason why these laws exist, they are for the protection of citizens. Officer Crowley failed to comply with this legal and rightful request.

Quote:
Quote:
You weren't there, you have no idea what the cop said or did, or his attitude towards Gates.


Neither were you, yet you haven't let that stop you from blaming the officer.


Well, Gates certainly didn't break the law in any fashion whatsoever; so what other explanation is there? It is the cops job to de-escalate situations such as this, not to give in to the jerkiness of citizens and abuse their authority.

Here's a great rundown, based on various accounts -

http://gawker.com/5321278/no-henry-louis-gates-is-not-a-railer-a-brawler-or-a-common-street-walker?skyline=true&s=x

The conclusion -

Quote:
What is clear is that the city of Cambridge has called the arrest "regrettable and unfortunate," and said that dropping the charges was "in the interests of justice." Crowley himself now says that he "regrets that I put the police department and the city in the position where they have to defend something like this." So if Crowley wasn't stupid, then what, exactly, does he regret?


He regrets over-stepping his authority and making a stupid arrest, whether it had anything to do with race or not. If he had merely left the premises, there would have been no further problem. Instead, he chose to arrest Gates on a bullshit charge and the whole thing has gotten spun out of control.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:23 pm


I'm guessing A2Ks staunchest liberals are reading Cyclotroll's Cyclobabble with great disdain.
0 Replies
 
Brand WTF
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:25 pm
The reporter stupidly asked a frivolous question in the midst of a much more important health care debate.

Obama stupidly commented with a 'ready, fire, aim' response... all but confirming the answer to the question, 'is he black enough?'.

Stupidly as stupidly does.

Case closed.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:38 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
This is precisely the problem where the police thinks only the public can provoke the police and not the other way around - especially to a black man.

Quote:
“I really didn’t want to have to take such a drastic action because I knew it was going to bring a certain amount of attention, unwanted attention, on me. Nonetheless, that’s how far professor Gates pushed it and provoked and just wouldn’t stop,” Crowley said.


Who's the provoketeer here? Police think they have a license to abuse the black man, but will think twice before they treat a white man the same way.

I'd like to see evidence of any white policeman treating a white man this way under similar circumstances.
rabel22
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:40 pm
If a cop came to my door and asked me to identify myself I would ask him why. If he informed me that some neighbor had reported that there was a break in and needed identification to prove who I was I would do so. I would than ask him to git the hell 0ff my porch unless he had a search warrant. This is my home and no one can come in unless they have a search warrant. If he wanted me to come outside I would refuse. This isent a police state yet although the conseratives are sure working to make it one. If he arrested me without reasonable cause I would sue him, the city, and the state. Both of these men were wrong in thier attitudes and thier actions. But as previously stated when in his home Gates had a perfect right to yell at the policeman.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 01:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,


CI & Cyclotroll = Unbelievable BullShit!
0 Replies
 
 

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