H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Tue 28 Apr, 2009 07:22 pm
@realjohnboy,


Your question makes no sense, could you state it more clearly?
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Tue 28 Apr, 2009 07:27 pm
@realjohnboy,
Do you live in Athens, GA? I seem to remember that. I could be wrong, though. Nice place.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Tue 28 Apr, 2009 07:35 pm
@realjohnboy,


Authorities are tracking a bearded white male last seen
in a HUMMER with Georgia tags and an Obama sticker.

Here is a recent picture of the liberal university professor that killed 3 in Athens, GA.

http://www.hogwild.net/images/Misc/al.gore-beard.jpg
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Tue 28 Apr, 2009 07:42 pm
@H2O MAN,
Damn, H20, you actually have a sense of humor. Who would have known.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Tue 28 Apr, 2009 07:47 pm
@realjohnboy,
Shocked
Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Tue 28 Apr, 2009 09:51 pm
@Lightwizard,
Lightwizard wrote:
The government needs to stop appointing lawyers to every post they can think of -- they know how to squirm out of the law just as much as following the law. We already have too many in the Senate and Congress.

Thats about the most intelligent thing you have ever written here. Amen, amen, amen!!!!!!!!
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Tue 28 Apr, 2009 10:09 pm
@okie,
Please don't confuse pathetic lawyer bashing for intelligent comment, okie.
okie
 
  0  
Tue 28 Apr, 2009 10:19 pm
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:

Please don't confuse pathetic lawyer bashing for intelligent comment, okie.

Well, hello, Ticomaya, my apologies. There are good attorneys out there. And no doubt it takes an intelligent person to become a lawyer. Lawyer jokes do exist for a reason, however, because the law is a great place for manipulations to occur by the unscrupulous percentage of lawyers. I have known a few, and I have known some excellent attorneys.

I do believe government is too heavily weighted toward lawyers, no doubt we need quite a few, and no doubt we need some in Congress, but I believe that we sorely need more of other professions, scientists, engineers, business owners, etc. We need more people that understand the practical disciplines of business in America, and we simply don't have enough of those in Washington now.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 02:15 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Woiyo, You really are stupid; blame everything on Obama. CLUE: The president isn't informed about every detail on everything.


So you are saying that the President doesnt always know what his staff is doing?
Arent you one of the people that blamed Bush for not knowing what his staff was doing?

And arent you also one of the people that said he should know what his staff was doing, and since he didnt it showed how incompetent he was?

Now, its ok for the president to not know what his staff is doing?
mysteryman
 
  1  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 02:36 am
Heres an interesting article about Obama and one of his campaign promises, one he appears to have no plan to keep...

http://www.cato.org/tech/tk/090413-tk.html

Quote:
President Obama promised on the campaign trail that he would have the most transparent administration in history. As part of this commitment, he said that the public would have five days to look online and find out what was in the bills that came to his desk before he signed them. It was his first broken promise, and it's the promise that keeps on breaking. He has now signed 11 bills into law and gone, at best, 1 for 11 on his five-day posting promise. The Obama administration should deliver on the Web-enabled transparency he promised and post bills for five days before signing.


Quote:
But nine days after taking office, he signed a bill into law without posting it on Whitehouse.gov for five days. Since then, 10 more bills have become law over the president's signature, and only one has been posted online for five days " and that was for five days after it cleared Congress, not after formal presentment. Two bills have been held by the White House for five days before signing " but they weren't posted online!


Quote:
Whitehouse.gov has seen some bills posted, and some have been posted before the president signed them, but a few things have to happen for the president's promise to see real fulfillment.


Now, to clarify what bills have been posted, and how they dont fulfill Obamas promise, lets look here...
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/04/09/a-flagging-obama-transparency-effort/

Quote:
Of the eleven bills President Obama has signed, only six have been posted on Whitehouse.gov. None have been posted for a full five days after presentment from Congress.

One bill, the DTV Delay Act, was posted after it was cleared for presentment by Congress February 4th, with the President signing it February 11th. This arguably satisfies the five-day promise, though presentment - a constitutional step in the legislative process - would be a better time to start the five-day clock. (Congress presented it February 9th.)

Several times the White House has posted a bill while it remains in Congress, attempting to satisfy the five-day rule. But this doesn’t give the public an opportunity to review the final legislation - especially any last minute amendments. Versions of the children’s health insurance legislation, the omnibus spending bill, and the omnibus public land management bill were linked to from Whitehouse.gov while making their ways through Congress, but not posted in final form.

(The page linking to the omnibus spending bill was not highlighted in the White House blog or anywhere else on Whitehouse.gov I could find. The only evidence I found of when it was posted comes from Web commentary.)


So is he going to do what he promised, or is he going to simply forget about what he promised?


nimh
 
  2  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:17 am
@mysteryman,
I'm guessing that, the blanket way those questions are phrased, the answers would be yes, no, no and that's a red herring.

Seriously - of course the President will not know everything his staff does - so the only relevant question is whether the offending action in question is something he should have known. On which your mileage may vary.

If poster X has criticized Bush for not knowing about action Y of his staff because he thought that action Y was something the President should have known about, that doesnt mean that criticizing Obama for any action whatsoever any of his staff does at any time becomes fair payback. It all depends on what the offending action is, doesn't it?

You can argue as much as you want about whether Bush could have reasonably known about whatever staff action he was criticized for at the time you're thinking about. Or about whether Obama should have reasonably known about this one. But as some kind of blanket tit-for-tat argument this just doesnt make sense.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 05:44 am

Obama:

Hoping you will change what you believed in.
0 Replies
 
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 06:11 am
@cicerone imposter,
Don't try to change the subject, asshole.

The decision by Caldera to do this, at a cost of 300K to taxpayers is a rookie mistake. An apology is not sufficient to compensate the citizens of NYC and the business in the area who lost hundreds of manhours due to this stunt.

If Obama is a real manager and leader, he would fire this rookie and replace him with someone who can at least use common sense.

That fact that you refuse to criticize anyone in this administration only demonstrates further use usefulness as a tool and a fool.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 07:28 am
@mysteryman,
It seems the Cato Institute would rather lie about what Obama said than argue the real facts.

Quote:
"will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days."


While there may be some argument as to which bills are emergencies and which aren't, it seems the Cato Institute didn't want to make that argument. Instead they just wanted to pretend he said ALL bills would be posted for comment.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 08:57 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Heres an interesting article about Obama and one of his campaign promises, one he appears to have no plan to keep...


The press, and a goodly portion of the public, are emotionally invested, rather heavily, into Obama right now. This is akin to a bride beginning to realize she married a dud, but because she is so heavily invested into the groom, she will make the best of it and spin everything in the most attractive way. For how long, it depends, we will have to wait and see, perhaps throughout the term or longer? After all, think of the wedding, it was monumental, lots of money spent, many special people, gifts, ceremonies, etc., just as the campaign, all the polls analyzed and re-analyzed, the first black president, he is regarded as so smart, compared to Lincoln, FDR, etc., he is touted as possibly the greatest president ever, even before he has done anything. So, all the broken promises, bad cabinet picks, half truths, goof ups, policy mixups, inconsistencies, failures, and a sharper than expected turn to the left, the mainstream media will continue to bow at the altar of Obama for as long as they dare, far past the point of being reasonable. After all, he was "projected" to be great, by them, and how can they be wrong. They are never wrong, according to them. Admitting it is a much too big of a pill to swallow, plus it will take a very long time for many of them to even realize it, if they ever do.

And on this forum, you will have the Parados's, etc., equivocating, justifying, and spinning, till the cows come home.
old europe
 
  2  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 09:18 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
And on this forum, you will have the Parados's, etc., equivocating, justifying, and spinning, till the cows come home.


Which is essentially what other people are doing when they're claiming that the previous President was a "decent man" after it's become a well-known fact that he instituted a secret state-run torture program.
parados
 
  5  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 09:33 am
@okie,
Well okie.

I pointed out that there could be difference of opinion about which bills were emergencies. Since the statement by Obama clearly states it is only the bills that aren't emergencies that will have the 5 day period, it would make sense that you have to apply the emergency test to a bill before you can see if Obama kept his promise or not.

The problem okie isn't what I said but with your argument. You are clearly so invested in attacking Obama that you can't see when someone distorts what he said to argue against him. There are probably hundreds of very real reasons to dislike Obama. Why do you have to distort and manufacture reasons? Why not use the real ones? I am only pointing out that cato completely ignores part of Obama's statement to argue against what they want to rather than what Obama statement really was. It's a classic strawman tactic. Reasonable people recognize it is a strawman and it only hurts your side to use them. It seems to indicate you can't come up with strong reasons to dislike him but only made up ones.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 09:49 am
@nimh,
nimh, That would be true if both presidents had the same relative (similar offense) info at the same time, but Obama said he learned about the flight the same time we did.

Nitpicking whether he should have known is a ridiculous argument. It's impossible for any one person to know all - except for the expectations of conservatives to think Obama is a massiah, and criticize him for it.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 10:09 am
@old europe,
old europe wrote:

okie wrote:
And on this forum, you will have the Parados's, etc., equivocating, justifying, and spinning, till the cows come home.


Which is essentially what other people are doing when they're claiming that the previous President was a "decent man" after it's become a well-known fact that he instituted a secret state-run torture program.

Bush is a decent man, was, and is. The problem with your statement is the fact that you define torture, call it torture, when legally it was not deemed torture by the legal opinions provided Bush. Enhanced interrogation techniques did in fact extract very useful information that saved lives, probably many, and the techniques used did not inflict lasting health issues. One can argue emotional, but get real, the most hard core suspects on which this stuff was used are emotionally screwed up with all of their hatreds to begin with.

There is also evidence that Democrats, such as Pelosi, were briefed on this, and it was fine then, but she denies now. The climate has changed immensely since 2001, when the realities of what madmen were willing and capable of doing. 9/11 was fresh in peoples minds, as was the anthrax cases, and we more vividly understood the possibilities of nuclear and biological terrorist acts. Unfortunately, we have forgotten that.

Was reading a book last night about Stalin dealing with Hitler, and Stalin apparently refused to believe Hitler would attack, and instructed his forces to treat Germany with nothing that would appear to provoke, to the point of coddling and turning a blind eye to the realities of what was going to happen. I think we are now going back to a mindset like that right now.

I admit that waterboarding may be marginal, and it does cause me trepidations and some doubt, but some of the other charges, such as sleep deprivation, loud music, etc., that have been mentioned as torture, is not torture. If it was, I was tortured in the Army basic training, as I was deprived of sleep, intentionally, by the sargeants, that is part of the training, as were all the other soldiers.

I heard Mark Stein on Rush Limbaugh the other day talking about the caterpillar treatment. He framed a scenario where all the "torture czars" from around the world, different countries, got together and talked about strategies, and one of them said when in the most dire circumstances in one case, it got to the point when they were faced with armageddon, that they had to - perish the thought it would ever get to that, the almost unspeakable, "get out the caterpillar." You probably will chastise me for finding that humorous, but I did. Is that where we are at now with all of this, in dealing with people that have no regard for human life whatsoever?
okie
 
  0  
Wed 29 Apr, 2009 10:15 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Well okie.

I pointed out that there could be difference of opinion about which bills were emergencies. Since the statement by Obama clearly states it is only the bills that aren't emergencies that will have the 5 day period, it would make sense that you have to apply the emergency test to a bill before you can see if Obama kept his promise or not.

The problem okie isn't what I said but with your argument. You are clearly so invested in attacking Obama that you can't see when someone distorts what he said to argue against him. There are probably hundreds of very real reasons to dislike Obama. Why do you have to distort and manufacture reasons? Why not use the real ones? I am only pointing out that cato completely ignores part of Obama's statement to argue against what they want to rather than what Obama statement really was. It's a classic strawman tactic. Reasonable people recognize it is a strawman and it only hurts your side to use them. It seems to indicate you can't come up with strong reasons to dislike him but only made up ones.

My point is that you will always explain it away, you have so far. It isn't just this case you are talking about, it is in regard to many things. Honesty and transparency, no pork, the list is long, and Obama simply is not honest and transparent, not at all, and the pork business is a bait and switch, all a matter of terminology, he always explains it away. I am looking at a broad range of issues, the economic policy is nonsensical, his energy policy is non-existent, and they have no realistic chance of achieving what he has claimed. It is all smoke and mirrors. It is epitomized by a tax evader running the IRS.

You can fool some of the people all the time, and .......

Keep trying, Parados.
 

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