Obama '08?

You should look up fetus brain activity before you make a judgement about no brain or feeling pain. I believe that a fetus is a uneducated human being. At one time the only time killing a fetus was legal was if the mothers life was in danger. As with most decisions in the U.S. this is a political decision. Now if the mother feels that she may be inconvienced seems to be enough reason for an abortion. What happened to the if you play you must pay reasoning. Politics is going to be the eventual death of our government. The supreme court is destroying our form of government with its stupid decisions starting with the redefining of graft as political contributions. Perhaps in the future that aggust body will define the inability of being able to express ones self as prouf that they are non human. Think of how many more childern and mentally ill people we could get rid of. Think of the millions saved. And Diests anology of would you save one child or 1000 fetus smaks of conserative bs that so many of them post here. I think better of both him and you but cannot agree with you on this. I am not trying to impose my beliefs on any of you but stateing my beliefs.

The difference here is that these questions don't have right answers. If I save a 80 year old and a 30 year old dies, I did my best. I made a hard choice. People understand. If I run out of a building with a refrigerator and a person dies, it's not acceptable.

I submit that the question of saving one born person versus any number of unborn human life does has a defendable answer.

The baby, newborn, child, adult, or elderly (male or female) should be saved over one or one million embryos.

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I'm not using your burning building analogy. I'm just curious how his mind thinks.

I'd like to see any study that shows that a embryo has brain activity or can feel pain. There's a difference between a fetus and an embryo. We're talking about embryos in a refrigerator. Who would keep a fetus in a refrigerator?

Good point. Details such as a burning building allow for mental gymnastics to avoid the meat of the question.

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I'm curious; when a fetus is kept in a refrigerator, it usually signifies that the baby is dead. That would definitely prove no brain activity or feel pain.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but Diest made it very clear he was talking about embryos vs a live baby.

I assume you believe that a woman who is raped should be forced to have the resultant child? After all, the fetus was not responsible for the rape. It is unbelievable to me that any woman would allow others to insist that she bear an unwanted child.

Sarah Palin would force the raped woman to bear the child. However, she would not punish the woman who has an abortion. This is typical of the anti-choice crowd. Added to their hypocrisy, they would punish the doctor who assists the woman with the abortion.

Even in cases of incest; the father raping his own daughter.

I thought that a fetus was a live "person". And you are playing defination games. I am talking about a live baby in the mothers womb and stateing in plain language that abortion is about money both in the doctors pocket and in the mothers. I read somewhere that most abortions are performed on married women who dont want the bother of a baby. To put it plainly its about people who have the ability to express themselves to the politicians versus people who dont exist in the eyes of the law. Something that both deist and you protest when we talk about palistianians and Isralies. As I said I dont demand either of you agree with me. Follow your conscience. I do.

Getting back to Obama, isn't it great to have a president with a mind.

Instead of swaggering onto the deck of a ship to declare "mission accomplished," Obama kills pirates to rescue Americans from REAL danger.

I think you're mistaking me for somebody else. I've rarely ever posted on the Israel topics...

I'd hope you wouldn't be so foolish as to imply that you belief is the only one taking conscience into consideration.

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You assume a hell of a lot more than I stated. I have already said that it is up to the individuals conscience as to what they should do. I get a charge out of the term assist in the abortion. What does assistance cost now from an abortionist. As I stated before its all about money, not because they feel sorry for the person wanting an abortion. Now do the conserative thing and point out what an idiot I am because I dont agree with you.

And that's the whole gist of the right to reproductive freedom of choice. Each individual must follow his or her conscience. Why should you be allowed to abuse the power of the state in order to impose your religious or moral beliefs on others?

No, you are the one that used another term for what Diest is questioning of saving embryos or a live baby. He didn't say a fetus or a live baby. Show me where I ever said a fetus was not a live person?

If I understand your last sentance no I dont think I am the only one following my conscience. Am I mistaken in thinking that I already said that each person should be guided by his own conscience and that I am not demanding agreement from anyone but stating my own beliefs.

Show me where I stated that you must believe as I do. I have gone to great lengths to state that everyone must answer to themselves and of course the state. And you can be sure that if I become pregrant I wont have an abortion.

Tell me CI. Was this not a conserative BS question. A have you ever tasted a saltery ---- than mine kind of question. Its unworthy of both of you.

Your statements about a fetus having a brain and can feel pain seems to imply it should have preference over the woman's own beliefs. If not, why are you even making such a big deal out of it? Your conscience is better than theirs?

EXACTLY like he tried with you.

Just to reiterate on the torture issue,



http://72.3.233.244/pdfs/safefree/olc_05102005_bradbury46pg.pdf

This is what you're supporting, when you say nobody was being tortured; drowning people, torturing them, six times a day or more, every day for a month. Probably combining it with sleep deprivation, beatings, and other techniques to 'soften' them up. Doesn't sound too effective to me.

Cycloptichorn