Obama '08?

@cicerone imposter,

For anyone (especially liberals) that thinks water boarding is anything close to the torture, beheading/murder
and mutilation prisoners held by Muslim terrorist receive... you need a big time reality check.

Compare the two and only an out of touch moron would call water boarding torture.

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WASHINGTON"National Water Watch, a Washington-based conservation group, criticized the government's use of waterboarding Monday, calling the practice of laying a cloth over a detainee's face, immobilizing him, and pouring water over his face and body to simulate the sensation of drowning "a tragic waste of resources." "The idea that the United States could condone the despicable act of squandering several pitchers of water is shameful," NWW spokesman Gregory Hammil said. "It is amoral, unconscionable, and in direct opposition to all internationally recognized water- saving techniques." Hammil recommended the government switch to more eco-friendly means of enhanced interrogation, such as waterboarding with a return-hose device in order to reuse old water, or simply beating suspected terrorists to a bloody pulp.

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

Okie will not admit that a fetus is not an infant.

What is it, a martian, a bird, just what is it, Advocate?

Again, a pretty telling point, the same people that don't see a thing wrong with killing a helpless and totally innocent infant that just happened to survive a failed abortion, outside the womb, the same people are the moral judges of what constitutes torture of likely mass murderers.

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, libs, because you can't deal with the truth.

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It's Festus!

http://ferrisdesignstudio.com/FESTUS-paint.jpg

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@parados,

Are you going to admit that a fetus IS a human being?

If you can admit that, then you cannot honestly say that its ok to kill one, unless you also say its ok to kill any human at any time.

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The whole thing about fetus and abortion is just red herring to get away from that the fact the previous administration sanctioned torture, some of which we have prosecuted other countries with in the past. It don't matter if terrorist do worse things. Civilized nations have rules of engagement and they should be followed, not thrown out the window when it suits them. Or else what good is to have laws and rules to follow if you can just break them?

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@mysteryman,

Picture of fetus..

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/080520/080520-tasmanian-embryo-hmed-815a.widec.jpg

The fetus is not a human being...

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@Lightwizard,

The water thing is a good example of conservative humor, an oxymoron.

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@parados,

parados - This is exactly the logical folly that social conservatives want people wasting time on. A fetus is certainly a form of human life, but conservatives propose this argument as if any part of the issue was contingent on this. The point that is more important is that a "seed is not a tree." If conservatives really think this, they must answer to the burning building.

If a building was burning containing one infant child (or any born person for that matter) and a refrigerator full of living embryos, and they were given the ability to save either the child or any number of embryos (one or thousands) what is the right choice?

The single child?
The many embryos?

If they mean what they say, then it seems that the embryos are the obvious answer. However, I'll let conservatives off the hook. Perhaps value is not defined in numbers to them. Perhaps their answer is that either answer is valid.

That is a position, I've love to hear.
K
O

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Quote:

The first use of waterboarding and other rough treatment against a prisoner from Al Qaeda was ordered by senior Central Intelligence Agency officials despite the belief of interrogators that the prisoner had already told them all he knew, according to former intelligence officials and a footnote in a newly released legal memorandum.

The escalation to especially brutal interrogation tactics against the prisoner, Abu Zubaydah, including confining him in boxes and slamming him against the wall, was ordered by officials at C.I.A. headquarters based on a highly inflated assessment of his importance, interviews and a review of newly released documents show.

Abu Zubaydah had provided much valuable information under less severe treatment, and the harsher handling produced no breakthroughs, according to one former intelligence official with direct knowledge of the case. Instead, watching his torment caused great distress to his captors, the official said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/18/world/middleeast/18zubaydah.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

Perhaps this is why the interrogators aren't being charged.

Okie, you need to face the fact that you have some sickos at the top of your party who want to torture. They don't care about torturing people, hell, I think they like the idea of it; 24 was like a big wet dream for you conservatives.

Linking to a piece by Hayden and Mukasey - two who enabled abuses and are likely guilty of breaking the law, each - doesn't defend what was done. It just gives a microphone for the criminals to try and exculpate themselves.

Cycloptichorn

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@Diest TKO,

To bring this one step further, a fetus has no brain or feel pain, but the infant does. Yes, I would also like to hear their choice to see whether they really believe a fetus is a human baby.

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@Diest TKO,

Quote:

If a building was burning containing one infant child (or any born person for that matter) and a refrigerator full of living embryos, and they were given the ability to save either the child or any number of embryos (one or thousands) what is the right choice?

That depends.
Which one is closer to the exit?
What kind of fire is it?
Is the power still on, or is the refrigerator able to withstand the heat?
What is the FD using to fight the fire?
Is there any type of fire suppresion system (halon) activated?

I need more info to give a good answer.

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I will give credit to Obama for one thing, it seems he does have the power to revive the dead...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/THE_DEAD_RETURN?SITE=AP

Quote:

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- He's still got a little work to do on the economy, but already President Barack Obama has accomplished at least one task that had appeared all but impossible just a year ago: He's put The Dead back on the road.

So I will be the first to say on here that I think Obama accomplished something good.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

To bring this one step further, a fetus has no brain

That is not true.
A fetus has measurable brain activity at 25 weeks.

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@Diest TKO,

Diest TKO wrote:

This is exactly the logical folly that social conservatives want people wasting time on. A fetus is certainly a form of human life, but conservatives propose this argument as if any part of the issue was contingent on this. The point that is more important is that a "seed is not a tree."

They have proven that they care far more about "potential life" in the womb than they do about "actual life" in the real world. As noted before, these same people who insist that babies be born refuse to support them.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclo, When sickos defend sickos, you still end up with sickos; they must be proud Americans. They defamed our country, and increased terrorism around the world, because they were angry that we resorted to torture.

100% sickos. They also approved Bush's illegal wiretaps that was in direct violation of our Constitution.

They now want to cry about Obama's spending, but easily forget that Bush's last budget was 3.1 trillion dollars. At least Obama is trying to save our economy.

What are conservatives fighting for anywhos?

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@cicerone imposter,

And Obama's budget is 3.6 trillion dollars.
His budget is higher then Bush's budget, but the left seems to be ignoring that part.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
If a building was burning containing one infant child (or any born person for that matter) and a refrigerator full of living embryos, and they were given the ability to save either the child or any number of embryos (one or thousands) what is the right choice?

That depends.
Which one is closer to the exit?
What kind of fire is it?
Is the power still on, or is the refrigerator able to withstand the heat?
What is the FD using to fight the fire?
Is there any type of fire suppresion system (halon) activated?

I need more info to give a good answer.

You have the ability to save one, and the fire will burn whichever you choose not to take out of the building. That is the reality in this question. You have the ability to save one or the other? What is the right choice? Are both choices equally valid? If so, explain how saving any number of embryos would be acceptable over the born person.

T
K
O

1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

Diest, You have just presented mm with a dilemma; he can't answer your question, because it'll contradict his claim that an embryo is a human.

They get caught in their won hypocrisy so often, I wonder why they continue their BS.

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along those lines. If you could save one of the following and the other would die, make your choice. Consider every characteristic not listed as being equal.

1 80 year old male or 1 30 year old male.
1 30 year old male or 1 5 year old male.
1 5 year old male or 1 newborn male.
1 newborn male or 1 unborn fetus (male).
1 newborn male or 1000 unborn fetus' (male).

1 fetus or 1 30 year old.
1 fetus or 1 80 year old.

1 30 year old male or 1 30 year old female.
1 80 year old female or 1 30 year old male.
1 newborn female or 3 80 year old males.
1 newborn male or 3 80 year old females.

1 Reply

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