Obama '08?

Germany was not a basket case like Iraq for centuries.

I don't mind that. It just isn't marriage. It's a prank.

It's a prank only to bigots/homophobics.

One might not realise he is an uncouth moron until after he has ducked the questions.

He didn't say that! *and you know it.

That is EXACTLY what he said...

"You really can not possibly be this ignorant, Spendius. Just one very simple insignificant thing would be that tens of thousands of innocent people would still be living, breathing and possibly enjoying some of the features of daily life that you enjoy."

Give me a ******* break!!!!

No, that's not at all what I said, Woiyo. Reading embodies comprehension and it's clear that you're not all that good in that department.

There's no reason that anyone should give you any kind of break just because your comprehension level is at a grade school level.

Further, it's a highly, highly specious argument to try to reduce the USA's level of criminality by pointing out that others are also guilty of war crimes.

Rasmussen, in its daily polling, reports that President Obama's Approval Index number rose from +4 to + 8 over the weekend. That is a pretty significant change and suggests that his trip to Europe is being seen back here as successful. His numbers fell in March after those pesky cabinet nomination snafus and the fallout over the bonuses to AIG employees.

rjb, What are the current numbers?

They have a right to marry a woman, just like you did. Or marry a man just like your wife did. So whats the problem?

They don't love the opposite sex, they love a person of the same sex. Are you really such an asshole as to say something like this? You think people should marry those that they don't love romantically and are not physically attracted to, and that's a perfectly equal situation to you or me?

Think about what you are saying for a minute! You should be embarrassed to be so casually cruel to people.

Cycloptichorn

Settle down. I cannot help it if women can only have babies, men can't. Don't blame me. I did not create how this was all set up. Men do not have wombs. I can't help that.

Simmer down, cyclops, I only made an observation of fact, which is not an act of cruelty.

It sure is easy to pull your string. What is the hypersensitivity here?

Settle down? You're the making atrocious statements around here! You can't help it because "women can only have babies?" You're a freak'n idiot.

Marriage isn't about making babies. It's not even the most important thing about marriage for society, because a large percentage of married folks have no children for various reasons. But all marriages do share one very positive effect, children or not: stability. Now, divorces show us that obviously not every marriage is stable; but most are and most do put stability into people's lives.

This is extremely good for the economy, to put it bluntly. People who have families (spouse and/or kids) keep working, keep their jobs rather than skip around, keep spending money on goods for their house or apartment...

Anyway. The important part is that gay people have feelings too, I mean, don't you know that? Do you accept that? Because you can imagine how painful it would be to have people such as yourself tell them that their rights are equal to yours. That they have all the rights that you do and it's all equal. B/c that's bullshit, and you know it.

Here in America, as opposed to other countries and even our own farther back in history, we have the right to marry whoever we want. Things like economic class, race, age, and education or 'social' level do not prevent anyone from being with the one they love and creating a stable and permanent arrangement which benefits themselves and society.

Unless you're gay, in which case, you just don't have that right. You and I as kids could look at pictures of pretty girls and fantasize about marrying them or being with them. Laws and attitudes like yours tell them that they cannot do that, that they don't have the right to do that.

By saying the stuff you say, you're essentially denying that gay folks have emotions, or that their happiness or unhappiness matters at all. You deny them the same kind of life that you got a chance to leave. It's pretty insulting to them and a real jerk thing to say. Now, I don't think you are a jerk and I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. But I know lots of gay folks, and they are perfectly decent, no different than you or I, and want and desire the same things in life. I can't just sit back and let people demean them without trying to point out that this is a very, very wrong thing to do.

No matter how you feel about gays, please understand that they have always been with us and always will be. The level of gayness going on isn't going to change one whit if you allow them to marry someone they love or bar them from doing that. But what you are really doing is barring stability from their community, from a percentage of America, and that's a damn shame, for it hurts all of us.

Cycloptichorn

Good evening. I have said before, perhaps on A2K, that I thought the leadership of the gay movement made a mistake by going beyond the "civil union" notion. I don't think too many states would have had a problem with two people, of the same sex or not, "romantically" involved or not, with things like inheritance, end of life decisions or whatever.
But the notion of gay MARRIAGE, which is what the leadership went for, got the folks who some here might call homophobes in an uproar.
I have no doubt that the legal courts will come down on the side of the gays and the court of public opinion will also. It may take another decade or so.

To piggy-back on Cylo's post, it's not about "making babies." What has happened to many gays and lesbians who married to hide their sexuality and had children eventually divorced. That would never have happened if gays and lesbians had not been treated with disdain, hate, and homophobia. All they are seeking is equal rights.

You boys seem to be having trouble staying on topic. There are multiple threads on homosexual rights.

There are?

First of all, when in our nations history has this been a right, as you seem to claim?

Second of all, I don't have much interest in debating this subject, as there will be no resolution here. It is not a subject that I know everything about, nor does anyone else, I would submit that fact. There are many, many issues swirling around this subject, with many cross purposes, and many problems. It is loaded with unintended consequences, and the issue is not only subject to natural situations and laws, but also to religious beliefs and the consequences therefrom. I can understand your argument, however, I see alot of pitfalls with going with full rights to marry same sex partners.

I will mention one problem with your scenario. Once the militant gay community has its way, discrimination against gay marriage can become a crime. That would be fine except for the fact that many people, and most traditional Christians, and perhaps Jews and Muslims as well, I don't know about that, believe it is wrong, thus forcing anyone to accept this behavior as a civil right is at cross purposes to religious freedom. Do you understand that?

Most people, including myself, are not going to care much about what two people do in private and the way they act. However, they have no right to force me to accept that behavior as normal and force me to put my stamp of approval upon it, because I don't believe it is. I happen to think I have rights too. I don't want to fight over it, but I just don't want it rammed down my throat. Not as a civil right. And I believe it is an insult to other legitimate civil rights to push this issue as a civil right. Once that should occur, there will be all kinds of unintended consequences, more than we have now, concerning hiring laws, school curriculum, religious freedom, etc. What seems like granting rights will in fact lead to the curtailment of rights for many people, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and so on.

I realize the libs will jump all over me here, and I am not politically correct. I don't care. I am not here to be politically correct, I am here to express my honest and valid opinion.

Your question/criticism a few minutes ago was about staying on topic>