Obama '08?

Establishment turning on Obama? I'm surprised the liberal rag, Newsweek, would allow this to be written! I would say to Howard, all you have is a street organizer from Chicago with no management experience, what made you think he was presidential material to begin with??????

http://www.newsweek.com/id/188565

"....

Swimming in the middle, he's denounced as a socialist by conservatives, criticized as a polite accommodationist by government-is-the-answer liberals, and increasingly, dismissed as being in over his head by technocrats.

Luckily for Obama, the public still likes and trusts him, at least judging by the latest polls, including NEWSWEEK's.But, in ways both large and small, what's left of the American establishment is taking his measure and, with surprising swiftness, they are finding him lacking.

...."

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Don't know if this has already been posted in the 2,000 pages of replies on this thread, but it's worth reading by Obama supporters and opponents.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/03/11/mercury/index.html

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@Finn dAbuzz,

I hope the Canadian Mountie, blatham, has read this? I nearly forgot his name, but remember the uniform. Isn't salon where he gets all of his news? Where has he been lately?

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Obama's ratings continue to drop, down to 56% according to Rasmussen, but possibly worse for him are the numbers increasing that show disapproval, and the spread between strongly approve and strongly disapprove is down to +6, after being much higher, the graph indicating almost +30 at inauguration time. Perhaps this bodes well for Americans hoping to stop alot of his destructive agenda. I hope so.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

"Overall, 56% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President’s performance so far while 43% disapprove. Those figures have remain unchanged for five straight days. "

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/obama_index_march_11_2009/208248-1-eng-US/obama_index_march_11_2009.jpg

1 Reply

@okie,

Rasmussen is highly partisan. Gallup has him at 62% approval - 27% disapproval. Congress is also at it's highest rankings in three years - thanks to the 50%+ rating the Dems in Congress are achieving.

Cycloptichorn

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How is the GOP (ie Rushies) spinning the EMbryonic stenm cell issue? Are the partisan dearies gonna be a monolith when it comes to science and med?

1 Reply

@okie,

Who said this in 2008.?
"the fundamentals of the US economy are sound"

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@farmerman,

Who said it in 2009?

If it was wrong in 2008, then it had to also be wrong in 2009.
Why arent you saying that?

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

How is the GOP (ie Rushies) spinning the EMbryonic stenm cell issue? Are the partisan dearies gonna be a monolith when it comes to science and med?

fm, the best analysis of this, I heard by Lars Larsen, using guest experts on both sides. Here is my take, based upon that and what I have known about this previously.
Contrary to popular insinuated information, there has been alot of stem cell research prior to now, mostly with adult stem cell research, which government does support and has for many many years, again contrary to insinuated beliefs in the public. And private embryonic stem cell research is being done, although not publicly funded, again contrary to popular belief. And so far, many more treatments, a dozen or two at least, have come forth from adult stem cell research, in contrast with embryonic stem cell research, which has not so far resulted in anything very promising, again another point that has been ignored and mis-reported. Further, due to the biological nature of embryonic stem cells, they may offer greater problems and risks in regard to unwanted growth, etc. And although it seems that right now that embryonic stem cells used in research come from unwanted stem cells in laboratories that will be discarded anyway, the acceleration of embryonic stem cell research may very well use these up and thus stimulate the possible trafficking of stem cells, from who knows where? It opens up a slippery slope and highly questionable moral problems, over and above what currently surrounds the issue.

So my take on this is government money gives the false impression that finally stem cell research is now finally being started, thanks to Obama, which is a lie, and secondly that it somehow opens up the liklihood for some immediate treatment to make the crippled walk, which is another highly skewed expectation. And third, the most likelihood of a breakthrough probably still lies in adult stem cells, which has been going on a long time.

My conclusion is that there has been a mountain of disinformation on this issue, thanks to the mainstream media which has done a terrible job of researching this and reporting on it so that the public understands it, and the scientific prognosis and likely direction of progress for this is not anything like what it has been portrayed.

Embryonic stem cell research is celebrated by the abortion crowd, as a way to soothe their conscience, but the entire issue has been mis-represented and mis-reported, and generally not properly understood by the public.

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The Obama admin is considering a plan to charge vets for medical care for service related injuries...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/10/veterans.health.insurance/index.html

Quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki confirmed Tuesday that the Obama administration is considering a controversial plan to make veterans pay for treatment of service-related injuries with private insurance.

snip

Quote:

The groups also cited an increase in "third-party collections" estimated in the 2010 budget proposal -- something they said could be achieved only if the Veterans Administration started billing for service-related injuries.

Asked about the proposal, Shinseki said it was under "consideration."

"A final decision hasn't been made yet," he said.

Currently, veterans' private insurance is charged only when they receive health care from the VA for medical issues that are not related to service injuries, like getting the flu.

Charging for service-related injuries would violate "a sacred trust," Veterans of Foreign Wars spokesman Joe Davis said. Davis said the move would risk private health care for veterans and their families by potentially maxing out benefits paying for costly war injury treatments.

So is this how the Obama admin shows its support for veterans?
I have a service related injury, and if I have to pay for my medical care for that wound out of my own pocket, my insurance will be maxed out in no time.

With "support" like this from the Obama admin, veterans dont need enemies.

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@mysteryman,

All the GOP has shut up . They only wish to NOT HELP in fixing the economy. The comisariat has spoken

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

All the GOP has shut up . They only wish to NOT HELP in fixing the economy. The comisariat has spoken

I think the GOP believes in capitalism, fm. Can Obama say that with a straight face, and will anyone believe it? I don't, not by what he has done, and what he is trying to do. Admit it, the guy is a fraud.

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@farmerman,

McCain was wrong for saying it in 2008, but now when the economy is even worse then it was then, Obama is correct for saying the same thing McCain did.
Is that what you are saying?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

Quote:

I have a service related injury, and if I have to pay for my medical care for that wound out of my own pocket, my insurance will be maxed out in no time.

If that was me it would be a lot more than an insurance premium that would max. out.

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@okie,

Quote:

My conclusion is that there has been a mountain of disinformation on this issue, thanks to the mainstream media which has done a terrible job of researching this and reporting on it so that the public understands it

. The press hasnt been doing anything of the sort. The Bush administration had you believe that IPS (induced pluripotent stem cells), those derived from adults, are a "magic bullet of a source of stem cells". If that were tru, then why do they make the inference that basically says'ADULT STEM CELLS CAN DO THE SAME AS EMBRYONIC". What youre not being told is that to generate IPSC's you must take toxic chemicals and alter the genomic material. This can (and IS) carried into the IPSC's function and, by evidence, shows that there are many possible toxic results. (embryonic stem cells have already been used in limited cases on humans but IPSC's have not). Also, Nobody knows how effective the IPSC's really are because they deteriorate from induced functionality as time goes on. While the possibility exists that IPSC's may have a degree of functionality for medicine, itd be so much better to be able to compare IPSC's against the embryonic forms function. Even this wasnt really available till now. The existing lines of stem cells that Bush allowed to be used in his "compromise" are arguably being degraded every time a line is harvested from the remaining embryos. Also those embryos arent genetically variable to do functionality testing.

Medical SCience is pretty much lined up in favor of Embryonic stem cell research. The actual "spinmeistering" is being orchestrated by the Evangelical Christian arm of the GOP . (I assume that the Catholic Church still comes out against embryonic stem cells because they believe that , in all cases, the mothers life is secondary.

There really is no valid argument against ESC's research, and several treatments are almost ready to be "rolled out " for clinical trials. To believe that these will NOT show benefit demonstrates a really closeted and uninformed view of medical science research

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

OBAMA, in my understanding is NOT implying that the economy is strong (as was implied by McCain) , Obama has been taking flak from his own party for telling us how bad it really IS. What news do you listen to?

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@farmerman,

The economy is highly sensitive to confidence, confidence in the business world, confidence in the markets, confidence to invest, confidence to buy, and so forth, and Obama's policies are not inspiring confidence, and it is destroying incentives for business to move forward. So when Obama says it is bad, it is bad, under his current and future policies. Alot of the business activity today depends upon the prospects for tomorrow, and Obama and his congress have taken tomorrow and is in process of trashing it, in terms of capitalistic activity, risk taking, and business stability and planning.

Being as resilient as the country is, once business figures out what Obama is about, and what he is likely to do or be able to do, they will figure out a way through it and may begin to formulate a mild recovery, but make no mistake, if we had true leadership that believed in profits and capitalism, we would not be in the doldrums this far down.

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@farmerman,

fm, I have had to try to educate myself on this, but based upon what I have learned, I don't think you are representing the argument correctly. For example, the induced pluripotent stem cells are only one type of research avenue or treatment type for adult stem cells. And adult stem cell treatments are so far the only proven therapies that work, not embryonic. To try to summarize this, I post the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell_research

"Therapies
Main article: Stem cell treatments
Since stem cells have the ability to differentiate into any type of cell, they offer promise in the development of medical treatments for a wide range of conditions. Treatments that have been proposed include treatment for physical trauma, degenerative conditions, and genetic diseases (in combination with gene therapy). Yet further treatments using stem cells could potentially be developed thanks to their ability to repair extensive tissue damage.[2]

Much success and potential has been demonstrated from research using adult stem cells. There are no approved treatments or human trials using embryonic stem cells. Nevertheless, some[who?] are of the opinion that the differentiation potential of embryonic stem cells is broader than most adult stem cells. Embryonic stem cells can become all cell types of the body because they are pluripotent. Adult stem cells are generally limited to differentiating into different cell types of their tissue of origin. However, some evidence suggests that adult stem cell plasticity may exist, increasing the number of cell types a given adult stem cell can become. In addition, embryonic stem cells are considered more useful for nervous system therapies, because researchers have struggled to identify and isolate neural progenitors from adult tissues. Embryonic stem cells, however, might be rejected by the immune system - a problem which wouldn't occur if the patient received his or her own stem cells.

[edit] Alternative sources
Some stem cell researchers are working to develop techniques of isolating stem cells that are as potent as embryonic stem cells, but do not require a human embryo.

Some believe that human skin cells can be coaxed to "de-differentiate" and revert to an embryonic state. Researchers at Harvard University, led by Kevin Eggan, have attempted to transfer the nucleus of a somatic cell into an existing embryonic stem cell, thus creating a new stem cell line.[3] Another study published in August 2006 also indicates that differentiated cells can be reprogrammed to an embryonic-like state by introducing four specific factors, resulting in induced pluripotent stem cells.[4]

Researchers at Advanced Cell Technology, led by Robert Lanza, reported the successful derivation of a stem cell line using a process similar to preimplantation genetic diagnosis, in which a single blastomere is extracted from a blastocyst.[5] At the 2007 meeting of the International Society for Stem Cell Research (ISSCR) [6], Lanza announced that his team had succeeded in producing three new stem cell lines without destroying the parent embryos. "These are the first human embryonic cell lines in existence that didn't result from the destruction of an embryo." Lanza is currently in discussions with the National Institutes of Health (NIH) to determine whether the new technique sidesteps U.S. restrictions on federal funding for ES cell research.[7]

According to a January 9, 2007 Daily Telegraph (London) article reporting on a statement by Dr. Anthony Atala of Wake Forest University, the fluid surrounding the fetus has been found to contain stem cells, that, when utilized correctly, "can be differentiated towards cell types such as fat, bone, muscle, blood vessel, nerve and liver cells", according to the article. The extraction of this fluid is not thought to harm the fetus in any way. "Our hope is that these cells will provide a valuable resource for tissue repair and for engineered organs as well," said Dr Atala.["

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Whats this all about, the FBI raiding the office of Obama's chief information officer? What happened to this, apparently another vetting failure? And when is Obama going to rein in the maverick FBI office?

"FBI Arrests Two After Raiding Office of Obama's Pick for Information Officer
The investigation is related to allegations of corruption, one source said, but at this point is not targeting Vivek Kundra. "

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/12/obamas-pick-information-officer-raided-fbi/

1 Reply

@okie,

Reuters:

Quote:

Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:27pm EDT

... The FBI raided the former office of Obama administration official Vivek Kundra and arrested two people in a corruption probe on Thursday, but Kundra is not a target of the investigation, a spokeswoman for Washington's mayor said.

The FBI searched the offices of the District of Columbia's chief technology officer, a post formerly held by Kundra, as it investigates employee corruption there, spokeswoman Mafara Hobson said.

President Barack Obama named Kundra, 34, to be the federal government's chief information officer last week, responsible for overseeing the government's computer systems.

The White House declined to comment.

Yusuf Acar, who works in the District's technology office, and another man, Sushil Bansal, were arrested, FBI spokeswoman Lindsay Godwin said. ... ... ...

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