cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 03:18 pm
Don't you just love those negatives that can't be proven?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 03:25 pm
okie wrote:
If he is left of center, then why not consider him a useful amplifier of the Clinton slime machine? I doubt it, but it bears as much or more credibility as the idea of him being part of the Republican machine.

Because this specific soundbite repeated a talking point of pro-Republican, not pro-Democratic pundits. As soon as Mr. Greenfield slimes a Republican with a Hillary Clinton talking point, you are welcome to calling him an amplifier of the Clinton slime machine.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 03:33 pm
Thomas wrote:
okie wrote:
If he is left of center, then why not consider him a useful amplifier of the Clinton slime machine? I doubt it, but it bears as much or more credibility as the idea of him being part of the Republican machine.

Because this specific soundbite repeated a talking point of pro-Republican, not pro-Democratic pundits. As soon as Mr. Greenfield slimes a Republican with a Hillary Clinton talking point, you are welcome to calling him an amplifier of the Clinton slime machine.


Baloney. You will first need evidence that the Republicans are 'sliming' Obama at all or show that Greenfield is parroting what Republicans are saying about him. Otherwise, it very much appears that you are just 'sliming' Republicans. Smile
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 03:43 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Baloney. You will first need evidence that the Republicans are 'sliming' Obama at all or show that Greenfield is parroting what Republicans are saying about him. Otherwise, it very much appears that you are just 'sliming' Republicans. Smile

Sliming Republicans is fun -- you should try it yourself one day. Razz
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 03:52 pm
You don't get it Foxfyre. Even when a liberal slimes Obama, it is the Republican's fault. Everything is the Republicans fault.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 03:56 pm
okie wrote:
You don't get it Foxfyre. Even when a liberal slimes Obama, it is the Republican's fault. Everything is the Republicans fault.


Aw come on Okie, get with the spirit and admit its fun to slime 'em now and then. Smile (Admittedly its more fun to slime than be slimed, and probably a snow ball fight would be more fun.)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 03:59 pm
And just about as harmful to the psyche.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 05:04 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Thomas wrote:
okie wrote:
If he is left of center, then why not consider him a useful amplifier of the Clinton slime machine? I doubt it, but it bears as much or more credibility as the idea of him being part of the Republican machine.

Because this specific soundbite repeated a talking point of pro-Republican, not pro-Democratic pundits. As soon as Mr. Greenfield slimes a Republican with a Hillary Clinton talking point, you are welcome to calling him an amplifier of the Clinton slime machine.


Baloney. You will first need evidence that the Republicans are 'sliming' Obama at all or show that Greenfield is parroting what Republicans are saying about him. Otherwise, it very much appears that you are just 'sliming' Republicans. Smile


The singular instance I've seen of this so far was Ed Rogers (I think that's the right name) tossing in Obama's middle name during an MSNBC interview (and Just Wonders did it here on a2k as well). As I've never heard Rogers include anyone else's middle name previously (why, after all? Hardly relevant information) the intent was pretty transparent.

But as I said, so far, it's the single instance.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 12:43 am
I don't know about Rogers, but there is plenty of precedent with people having their middle names prominently mentioned. Hillary Rodham Clinton, William Jefferson Clinton, Lyndon Baines Johnson, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Richard Millhouse Nixon, the list goes on. I realize Obama can't help what his middle name happens to be, but perhaps there are reasons why his parents named him Barak and Hussein?

I have not made up my mind on Obama, but lets just say I am leery of any liberal Democrat. He has a very liberal voting record. I am collecting information on him, or absorbing it I will say.

Dick Morris was on today and did not have great things to say about Obama. He said to read his book is revealing, that it is scary that this man is actually mentioned as presidential material, that the book is very amateurish and displays an inexperienced, immature, and naive view of life and the world. Also as a political analyst, hack, and polling / public opinion expert, Morris says he is likely a flash in the pan, and that his appeal may flame out sooner than later, but even if he makes a run at it, his best chance is Vice President. Morris also agrees he is ill prepared for hard ball politics with the Clintons and the rest of the party that probably is not ready for Obama to steal their thunder. I say all of this in different words than Morris, but I have attempted to capture the essence of what he said. Like Morris or not, he knows the people involved. He knows how sleezy the Clintons were and says so. He is not always right of course, but his opinions do bear consideration. He confirms the view that Hillary cannot be trusted concerning manipulation behind the scenes, against Obama, but at this point, she would not wish to alienate black voters, so anything done against Obama would be done covertly so that she would not be blamed for the mud slinging at Obama. How convenient to blame it on the Republicans.

Dick Morris conclusion is the race is between Hillary and Al Gore. My reaction, do we have to endure those two again?
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 01:15 am
Considering what we are all enduring now, it should be a piece of cake.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 01:26 am
So, Dick Morris is the final arbiter of presidential candidates in the US now?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 01:29 am
kelticwizard wrote:
Considering what we are all enduring now, it should be a piece of cake.


I can't wait to hear Al scream at the top of his lungs in the black churches again! It was at least entertaining.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 01:36 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
So, Dick Morris is the final arbiter of presidential candidates in the US now?


I hope not. I just thought you might be interested in his opinion, since he has studied polling and public opinion for a few years. Take it for what its worth, which probably isn't much, but its still worth as much as anyone else I've heard on the subject.

Count me among the mystified, why do people think Obama is inspiring and a good speaker? I wasn't inspired or particularly impressed when I listened. This is one of those phenomena that really is puzzling. Oh well, we will just have to wait and see what happens. I think he's a flash in the pan, so I tend to agree with Morris on him.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 01:42 am
okie wrote:
I can't wait to hear Al scream at the top of his lungs in the black churches again! It was at least entertaining.


Ever take a wrong turn in the road, then several miles down that wrong road realize you have to go back where you went wrong and take the correct road?

For most Americans, Bush was the wrong turn in the road.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 04:36 am
Each one of the "middle name included" folks that Okie mentions arrived on the political scene out of either family or local tradition where their middle names were often or normally included. Likely, some would have encouraged it hoping to gain an upper class cachet.

And of course, none of them had a middle name which might have been used as a PR slime against them.

Rogers did this last week during a period when Hardball was being guest-hosted. Matthews, on his return last night, brought Rogers onto the show as a first item and laid into him for what he'd done. Rogers was in full squirm and deserved to be.

Look, okie...let's do this honestly. I noted in my post that brought this matter up that Rogers' attempted slime was the single instance I've seen of anyone on the right attempting an irrelevant and barrel-bottom smear of Obama in the MSM (and I noted that Just Wonders tried it here on a2k - and actually Lone Star Madam did it too which will surprise no one). But this WAS an instance and you do poor service to honesty and the truth and your own integrity to attempt an excuse of it.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 08:34 am
blatham wrote:
Each one of the "middle name included" folks that Okie mentions arrived on the political scene out of either family or local tradition where their middle names were often or normally included. Likely, some would have encouraged it hoping to gain an upper class cachet.

And of course, none of them had a middle name which might have been used as a PR slime against them.

Rogers did this last week during a period when Hardball was being guest-hosted. Matthews, on his return last night, brought Rogers onto the show as a first item and laid into him for what he'd done. Rogers was in full squirm and deserved to be.

Look, okie...let's do this honestly. I noted in my post that brought this matter up that Rogers' attempted slime was the single instance I've seen of anyone on the right attempting an irrelevant and barrel-bottom smear of Obama in the MSM (and I noted that Just Wonders tried it here on a2k - and actually Lone Star Madam did it too which will surprise no one). But this WAS an instance and you do poor service to honesty and the truth and your own integrity to attempt an excuse of it.


Are you seriously suggesting that your side of the poltiical spectrum would not notice if a GOP candidate's middle name was Hussein? It would not be mentioned? It would not be the butt of jokes or used in analogies? I don't know who this Roger guy is you're mentioning, but Greenfield, a registered Democrat, did use it in the interview discussed yesterday. It is a given that it will be used by Leno, Letterman, et al in their monologues from time to time.

Ted Kennedy has been mercilessly quoted on the talk show circuit when he butchered Obama's name in a speech. (And he did call him Osama Bama or something to that effect.) They're ridiculing Kennedy though, not Obama.

I hadn't even noticed what Obama's name rhymed with or what his middle name was until James Carville pointed it out when he was actually listing all of Obama's strengths and good points. (Want to call HIM part of the GOP slime machine?) And then, and only then, did I see the potential for mischief with the name which is why I mentioned some days ago that I wished he had a different name.

I like Obama. In fact among all the potential Democratic contenders that have surfaced so far, I like him best. And I think if everybody goes ahead and makes fun of the name now, it will be old hat by election time and no longer useful in anybody's 'slime machine'.

It isn't going to be the GOP who 'slimes' him at least now. The GOP fears Hillary far more than they fear Obama and they're going to encourage anybody who can cut into her potential. Divide and conquer as it were.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 09:09 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting that your side of the poltiical spectrum would not notice if a GOP candidate's middle name was Hussein?

No. As you would certainly have noticed on a closer reading of his post, Blatham only remarket that a few people on your side of the political spectrum did notice it, and made a point of noticing it. Blatham didn't suggest anything about whether his political side would bring it up. He didn't say they would, he didn't say they wouldn't.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 09:14 am
Thomas wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting that your side of the poltiical spectrum would not notice if a GOP candidate's middle name was Hussein?

No. As you would certainly have noticed on a closer reading of his post, Blatham only remarket that a few people on your side of the political spectrum did notice it, and made a point of noticing it. Blatham didn't suggest anything about whether his political side would bring it up. He didn't say they would, he didn't say they wouldn't.


Yes, but his implication was that it is only the GOP doing it and that it is an attempt at a 'slime' etc. You won't often find Blatham seeking out things to 'slime' on the Left side of the ledger or nitpicking the way those on the Left express themselves. He's pretty partial in his criticisms which is his prerogative as is his prerogative to frequently and regularly reference and 'smear' some here that he disagrees with.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 09:49 am
okie wrote:


Count me among the mystified, why do people think Obama is inspiring and a good speaker? I wasn't inspired or particularly impressed when I listened. This is one of those phenomena that really is puzzling.


Of course, it's puzzling to you. Obviously, it doesn't matter who the Dem nominee is to you Any Dem who would be acceptable to you would not be electable because the lucid would not vote for him.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 09:58 am
I think, I already had posted that when it was published.

But here it is, from certainly not a left or Obama-biased source, namely from the Chicago Sun-Times, December 5, 2006, page 16:

http://i14.tinypic.com/4h1bll5.jpg


Quote:
Obama doesn't hide middle name

December 5, 2006
BY LYNN SWEET Sun-Times Columnist
Barack Hussein Obama. The blogosphere and talk radio, even C-Span, has chatter about the middle name of the Illinois Democrat.
Obama never hid the name. Never highlighted it, either. People are just starting to pay closer attention as Obama mulls a 2008 White House run. He is the son of Barack Hussein Obama Sr.

Hussein is a family name. His grandmother is Sara Hussein Obama.

At one point he was Barack H. Obama. That's how he is listed in the Harvard Law Review when he was the president of the publication. He dropped the H and dumped his nickname of Barry along the way.

It wouldn't make sense in Illinois to use Barack Hussein Obama as a ballot name when he started running for the state Senate in the late 1990s -- before 9/11 (Osama bin Laden) and the Iraq war (Saddam Hussein).

Barack Obama was enough to deal with -- not so much because of anti-Muslim prejudice, which I am sure unfortunately exists, but the irrational preference Illinois voters have had for Irish and WASPy names.


Luck of the Irish
Obama jokes that people at first thought he was O'Bama, a remark rooted in local political reality. Voters in Cook County elect judges with Irish names. In March 1986, former Sen. Adlai Stevenson's running mate George Sangmeister lost an Illinois Democratic primary for lt. governor to Lyndon LaRouche Democrat Mark Fairchild and Aurelia Pucinski was defeated in her Secretary of State primary by LaRouche Democrat unknown Janice Hart.
In March 1986, former Sen. Adlai Stevenson and running mate Aurelia Pucinski lost an Illinois Democratic primary for governor to Lyndon LaRouche Democrats Mark Fairchild and Janice Hart. Things have improved on the ethnic name front: Rod Blagojevich was twice elected governor.

The Hussein name prompted a C-Span caller last week to ask if Obama was a Muslim. Obama's father was born to the faith and fell away. Obama is a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ.
0 Replies
 
 

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