Obama '08?

You have no proof that the above statement is true since before union’s wages and working conditions were terrible and with the help of unions they improved.

WASHINGTON, Nov. 12 (UPI) -- Recent data indicate the U.S. consumer, responsible for two-thirds of the U.S. economy, may cut spending sharply through 2009.

Automobile sales plummeted in October falling 32 percent in the third quarter, The New York Times (NYSE:NYT) reported Wednesday. Major electronics retailer Circuit City filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy this month and income growth is lagging behind inflation, the Times said.

The employment picture also points to the possibility spending may fall next year.

The job market "already appears to be in worse shape than at any time during the recessions of the early 1990s or early 2000s," Lawrence Katz, a former U.S. Labor Department chief economist told the Times.

On balance, an economic stimulus package of $400 billion would be required to make up for a 1 percent drop in spending. While a stimulus bill may be forthcoming, current discussions in Washington point to a possible stimulus package of about $150 billion.

U.S. families spent 91 percent of their income from the 1950s to the 1980s, saving the rest, the Times said. In recent years, spending has increased to 99 percent of household incomes, an indication that spending less may be overdue.

The UAW is losing its edge in pay compared with non-unionized U.S. assembly plant workers for foreign companies, even as Detroit automakers aim for deeper benefit cuts to trim their losses.

In at least one case last year, workers for a foreign automaker for the first time averaged more in base pay and bonuses than UAW members working for domestic automakers, according to an economist for the Center for Automotive Research and figures supplied to the Free Press by auto companies.

In that instance, Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year. Toyota would not provide a U.S. average, but said its 7,000-worker Georgetown plant is representative of its U.S. operations.

Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. are not far behind Toyota and UAW pay levels. Comparable wages have long been one way foreign companies fight off UAW organizing efforts.

My company has improved its benefits package and salary to AVOID becomming unionized. I know this is true because I was on the management committee that proposed the necesary changes to avoid the Union. Our thought was that if the company treats it's employees well then there is no reason why any of them would sign on to become unionized. This was a little over 2 years ago now.

So in a sense, the fact that there ARE unions DOES have an impact on employees (even those who aren't unionized).

maporsche wrote:

My company has improved its benefits package and salary to AVOID becomming unionized. I know this is true because I was on the management committee that proposed the necesary changes to avoid the Union. Our thought was that if the company treats it's employees well then there is no reason why any of them would sign on to become unionized. This was a little over 2 years ago now.

So in a sense, the fact that there ARE unions DOES have an impact on employees (even those who aren't unionized).

But maporsche, if everyone in the world was unionized in this global economy, that might be okay in the long term, but is that going to work in the long run? It will work in the short run, but competition worldwide may put your company at a disadvantage at some point in the future. Of course the degree of disadvantage depends upon how much more benefits and salary over world market levels you are paying, plus all the other factors that play into your business, labor is only one factor, but nonetheless it is a factor. I guess the point I wish to make is that if unions influence your non-union wage and benefits packages, is that actually good in the long run, and how bad were your wages and benefits before the raises? There are short term consequences, and there are long term consequences, and I am merely pointing out that there are both to consider for the business.

No okie, what I am trying to tell you is that overall the economy and auto industry in general are all suffering in this economy including Toyota. Moreover, Toyota has been paying higher wages to avoid being unionized.

So if the economy improves and we still have unions and even those compaines with unions improve all along with non unions compainies, you will have to admit unions had nothing to do with it. There are other companies besides automakers who have unions and their companies are not doing any worse than other companies without unions.

HEALTH CARE
- Cutting medicaid
- Allowing abortion denials for moral or religious objections
ENVIRONMENT
- Allowing mining near the Grand Canyon
- Discounting global warming when assessing species risks
- Weakening the Endangered Species Act
- Eliminating review of fishing regulations
- Allowing more emissions from power plants
- Opening protected land to energy development
- Allowing factory farms to self-regulate waste
- Altering solid waste definition
CIVIL LIBERTIES
- Allowing guns in national parks
- Allowing broader law-enforcement monitoring
LABOR
- Making it harder to take time off
- Allowing truckers to work 14 hour days
ADMINISTRATION
- Moving political appointees to permanent posts