Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:26 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

The Obama movement is based upon emotional connection, a malcontent appealing to the unhappy and malcontents out there, that want what somebody else has, not based on that of reason, cyclops. I hope you have a wonderful day, cyclops, I hope electing Obama will give you a sense of validation and happiness? I have pretty much given up on the malcontents. I will cast my vote for McCain Palin, but beyond that, I have no power over any of this, but don't say your weren't warned.


Actually, today is a great day for me - today I voted for Obama for president. I've been waiting almost two years to do this.

It's not based upon an 'emotional connection,' at least for me; it's based on his clear command of every issue on the table today, not to mention his intelligence. How can you make statements like this, Okie? Can you peer into the minds of others?

You're voting for McCain-Palin, b.c you are a scared racist. That's the only reason, Okie.

---

Now, do you want me saying things like that about you? No. So don't be that guy about others, who are proud of their vote, alright? The fact that it looks likely for McCain to lose doesn't give you the right to assume you know the motivations of those who support Obama.

Cycloptichorn
blueflame1
 
  0  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:29 am
@okie,
okie, the reason I have no problem comparing Palin and Bushie to Hitler is the similarity of the way they use God and Christ in their speeches to promote war. Rapture. Armageddon. America rejects it. Bomb bomb bomb Iran McCain? America rejects that.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:35 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

It's not based upon an 'emotional connection,' at least for me; it's based on his clear command of every issue on the table today, not to mention his intelligence. How can you make statements like this, Okie? Can you peer into the minds of others?
Cycloptichorn

Cyclops, you have been one of the most blindly partisan supporters of Obama anywhere, including on this forum. I think if he was found to have robbed a bank, it would not change your vote. You are a hopeless Obama worshiper, a dupe, admit it.

I will admit that this election cycle is painful to me, and I don't know whether to feel sorry for you people, or what? I feel more sorry for the country, the people that sacrificed to make it what it is, the people that like what is right about this country and there are lots of things that are right.

It is a huge sense of disappointment that I have in you people, the malcontents, I guess you were never taught to appreciate what we do have. I don't think Obama learned it. I can only hope that we do not have to suffer too greatly to wake the people to reality.
sozobe
 
  2  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:39 am
@okie,
Quote:
Optimism, meanwhile, is a strong point of differentiation between the two candidates. Likely voters by 62 percent to 30 percent see Obama as more optimistic than McCain " all else equal, an attractive quality in a candidate, as Ronald Reagan demonstrated.


http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Politics/story?id=6067150&page=1
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:52 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

It's not based upon an 'emotional connection,' at least for me; it's based on his clear command of every issue on the table today, not to mention his intelligence. How can you make statements like this, Okie? Can you peer into the minds of others?
Cycloptichorn

Cyclops, you have been one of the most blindly partisan supporters of Obama anywhere, including on this forum. I think if he was found to have robbed a bank, it would not change your vote. You are a hopeless Obama worshiper, a dupe, admit it.

I will admit that this election cycle is painful to me, and I don't know whether to feel sorry for you people, or what? I feel more sorry for the country, the people that sacrificed to make it what it is, the people that like what is right about this country and there are lots of things that are right.

It is a huge sense of disappointment that I have in you people, the malcontents, I guess you were never taught to appreciate what we do have. I don't think Obama learned it. I can only hope that we do not have to suffer too greatly to wake the people to reality.


Now Okie, what makes you think I am a 'malcontent?' I'm one of the happiest people you'll ever talk to, in my personal life.

More importantly, You're calling me a 'dupe?' Go **** yourself, Okie. You've been an apologist for every illegal and immoral thing the Right wing has done for the entire time you've been on this board. I've always been cordial with you, but your attitude at this moment is unbecoming.

Don't address me again until you can improve your attitude, Okie.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 11:03 am
@okie,
Hi okie -- I'm not part of the movement but voted for Obama. Had McCain been the Republican candidate in 2000 I probably would have voted for him over any of the Democrats running, with the possible exception of Bradley. Neither made it through the primary process so it became a non-decision.

I agree with maporsche that I hope he does great things -- I think he has the potential -- but that's not why I voted for him. McCain (in my opinion) gave up much of what made him a viable candidate by pandering to the far right of the party. I still didn't make a final decision, however, until he chose Palin as his running mate.

I won't say that my vote was a vote against McCain like my previous vote was a vote against Bush (such a bitter pill to swallow to pick Kerry but it was the lesser of two evils). I can honestly say that my vote was a vote For Obama coupled with an absolute vote against Palin. I wish McCain had kept true to himself (or my perception of his prior self) rather than pander to the far right. If he actually now aligns himself with the theocrats then it's a damned good thing he's losing by the margins he's losing by.

I think the Republican party has lost its center. We won't know until the lady is done singing but much of Obama's support isn't coming from Obama-ites but from Independents and moderate Republicans. You may call them all malcontents but that's not realistic. The Republican party has done much of the shooting itself in its own foot.
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 11:14 am
@sozobe,
soz

That points to one of the aspects of Obama's campaign that has been really brilliant...the maintenance of an upbeat, positive tone.

But I don't think that is so much a 'campaign strategy' as it is a simple reflection of the candidate. Strategies fall out from that prime fact and his team clearly are in correspondence.

And conversely, a fundamental McCain failing here looks to be that his campaign has been a similar reflection of McCain made worse by a clear lack of control or determinism over his staff and their desired strategies.
okie
 
  0  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 11:26 am
@JPB,
Hey, thanks JPB, a thoughtful post. I don't think all Obamaites are worshipers, but I do think alot of the support is emotional, based upon emotional appeal. That cannot be denied given the slogan "change" being front and center this entire campaign, with little explanation or detailed examination of what that includes.
okie
 
  0  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 11:32 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

soz

That points to one of the aspects of Obama's campaign that has been really brilliant...the maintenance of an upbeat, positive tone.

Again, I can't let that pass as accurate without rebuttal. The entire campaign has been negative, with the implication that America needs changing, that somehow everything is in the trash now, totally negative. A distinction here, blatham, I think lots of politicians further the idea of changing Washington, but I don't think that is the underpinning of what Obama is pushing, he is pushing changing the country, the system, not Washington. It is a clear case of a malcontent appealing to the malcontents and the feeling of frustration in people, not with Washington, but with what other people have and own, class envy, and wanting alot of it for themselves. I think there is a marked difference in Obama's message than traditional political messages in the past. Not all people that vote for Obama are malcontents, but that is the emotional side of their political makeup that he is appealing to.

Since Obama is campaigning to appeal emotionally for the most part, not on policy, we might as well discuss that here. Policy discussions would make little difference with an Obama voter. Even if Obama was found to be a bank robber, it would appear to make little difference in the allegiance of his voters.

One other comment, I do very much disagree that Obama has an upbeat mindset, I think he comes to us as a malcontent, with a background of malcontent. Bordering on dysfunctionalism.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 11:39 am
@okie,
Okie, the arrogance of your raw assertions is astounding.

Do you actually know any Obama supporters, in real life? Where do you get your conclusions as to why people support him? I think that you have created them in your mind, and fed them with theories from the right wing media; otherwise, you might have to accept that Obama is appealing to people based on the issues. And accept what that means about Conservatism and it's failure.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 11:43 am
@okie,
Quote:
Again, I can't let that pass as accurate without rebuttal. The entire campaign has been negative, with the implication that America needs changing,
Are you talking about McCain?
Mcain's speech to the convention
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/04/mccain.transcript/index.html
Quote:
And let me just offer an advance warning to the old, big-spending, do-nothing, me first, country second crowd: Change is coming.

I'm not -- I'm not in the habit of breaking my promises to my country, and neither is Gov. Palin. And when we tell you we're going to change Washington and stop leaving our country's problems for some unluckier generation to fix, you can count on it.

...That's going to change on my watch....

...We need to change the way government does almost everything: ...

...we have to change the way we do business in Washington....


Boy, I would hate to see you vote for someone promoting change okie. We wouldn't want you to make your decision based on simply emotion without facts.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  2  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 11:49 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
Hey, thanks JPB, a thoughtful post. I don't think all Obamaites are worshipers, but I do think alot of the support is emotional, based upon emotional appeal. That cannot be denied given the slogan "change" being front and center this entire campaign, with little explanation or detailed examination of what that includes.


What an outlandish accusation. Obama's platform outlines very clearly the programs he plans to institute. There are concrete numbers for his tax policy, for health care, for his policy in regard to Iraq...

But you're also right, of course. Bringing change to Washington has been the promise Obama has been running on since the early primaries. Unlike McCain, who criticised Obama for not having decades of experience with Washington politics.

Of course, the strategy of the McCain campaign changed drastically with the nomination of a complete newbie to the scene of national politics, a governor with a complete lack of interest in anything outside of her state. All of a sudden, McCain wasn't the "experienced" candidate anymore. Now he was the outsider, the reformer, the Maverick. And the slogan for his campaign changed with it:

http://i35.tinypic.com/314qqyt.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/21mf1wm.jpg

What a message.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 11:51 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Since Obama is campaigning to appeal emotionally for the most part, not on policy, we might as well discuss that here. Policy discussions would make little difference with an Obama voter.


this is downright giggle-inducing, when you recall that one of the initial concerns about Senator Obama was that he would be perceived as too much of a policy wonk, and that the voters wouldn't 'get' him. Seems that a lot of potential voters are 'getting' him and understanding his policies/platform/position.

It looks like a good proportion of the American public has learned that responding to the appeal to fear/emotionality of the Republican campaigns (past and present) was a mistake.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 12:03 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:

I'm from Missouri. I live here in northern Virginia, which according to the McCain, is not the "real Virginia" whatever that means. Anyways, I find myself seriously homesick when I see all the excitement back in MO. I would have loved to have been in STL to see Obama under the arch. I know Missouri, and I know it's people. The rallies in STL and KC are certainly amazing by themselves, but for me they make me super proud.

I was reading a book last night about the prelude to WWII, and all the politics in Germany and surrounding countries, including the people kissing the ground when Hitler passed by. Would you have also been one of those people?

I am not comparing Obama to Hitler, but I am comparing the mindset of his admirers / worshipers to some of the movements in history. I remember the people swooning over JFK, and other various figures that have come on the scene in America. Think also of pop stars, the Beatles, girls passing out at the sight of somebody. Woodstock, where thousands gathered, I guess for the excitement, looking for something to validate their existence, I am guessing. Roll the tape again to the St. Louis arch. Reading history reminds me that there are lots of people that are somehow validated by excitement, the political winds that blow, and frankly I have never understood it. I never got caught up in the Beatles, JFK, the drug scene, or none of the above. I remember loving a Reagan speech, but I would not worship the man, the focus was on something else, that something else being principles far above any man, including Reagan.

I fail to see why any person should worship any politician. Obama is a man, with feet of clay, lots of clay, a man that has gotten where he is by playing on people's emotions, their insecurities, their unhappiness. Change, change to what? When I left home this morning, my wife said I love you, and I thought, yes, this is a beautiful world, a beautiful country, with freedom, a beautiful day, and frankly I am sick of a demagogue that shouts change, change from what, changed from the most beautiful country ever known to mankind, to what? I guess to a world where the unhappy, the unvalidated, the have nots, the malcontents, to spread the wealth around, to take what you and I have, to give it to the malcontents to further their own political power.

Obamaites, all caught up in Obama mania, go ahead and attack my summary of this, but it is not without the benefit of living lots of years and observing what has happened for a few decades. Another point, the 60's radicals mindset is part of what is driving this whole thing. Obama comes to us as a malcontent, appealing to the unhappy, the unvalidated, the malcontents, and I guess there are alot these days. I happen to think this is very dangerous, and guys and gals, do not claim you were not warned.

I'm not worshiping Obama, I'm voting for him. You have a problem regulating extremes. I imagine you to always be whispering or shouting, but never really getting a mastery of the perfect indoor volume.

I would have loved to have been in STL for what I believe is history. I would have loved to have been there to see other people, hear other people. I would have loved to have heard him speak in the state I grew up in. I think the way he is connecting with people is amazing, and certainly calls upon my emotions, but I'm not worshiping the man. Would I have been a person kissing the ground that Hitler walked on? How dare you. Obama earned my vote.

If you think Obama is negative because he feel the nation needs change? What do you say to the +60% of Americans that feel we are headed in the wrong direction? I'm glad you kissed you wife and had happy thought about America. It doesn't mean that you've got some vantage point on the US which gives you the right to tell others that their unhappy thoughts are unjustified. You views on America don't make you more American or a better American. You can claim they do all you like though.

T
K
Obama has been very positive
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 12:05 pm
@Diest TKO,
And the whole...

Obamite, Obamaniac, Obamania crap is really ignorant.

T
K
O
maporsche
 
  1  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 12:25 pm
@Diest TKO,
C'mon TKO....there is this same petty **** from both sides, all the time. I agree it's ingorant, but I'm sure we've all been guilty of similar ignorance.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 03:45 pm
@Diest TKO,
If you think Obama is negative because he feel the nation needs change? What do you say to the +60% of Americans that feel we are headed in the wrong direction? I'm glad you kissed you wife and had happy thought about America. It doesn't mean that you've got some vantage point on the US which gives you the right to tell others that their unhappy thoughts are unjustified. You views on America don't make you more American or a better American. You can claim they do all you like though.

It isn't that Sen. Obama is 'negative", his public image that has resonated so well with Americans is that he projects a largely positive outlook that seems to hold out hope to those who are dissatisfied with the way things are. He has exploited his "outsider" image, and capitalized on a widespread desire for change.

In many ways the Obama resembles a messianic movement. Massive crowds of idealistic believers who are deaf and blind to any fault in their candidate, seems to be something more than just a political rally. Any criticism is characterized as being unfair, racist, ignorant, or almost anything except valid. Perhaps Sen. Obama is everything he purports to be, but it is just as likely that the public is being spoon-fed a just another sophisticated image that may have little to do with the man, his intentions, or character. After all, he has almost no experience or record in dealing with the Federal government. His record in the Senate is very thin, and has tended to take a "safe" course that wouldn't offend his Party's leaders, or special interest groups.

Barak Obama came to public notice when he delivered the key-note speech at the Democratic Convention. It was a well delivered speech, and it struck a highly emotional chord with the attendees. His message of transforming America, and bringing a divided nation together, wasn't especially new, but his delivery and apparent sincerity made him a Democratic icon. He has written a couple of books, largely autobiographical and describing his efforts to improve the lives of poor blacks living in Chicago. Some of the things in his books might suggest that he would like to see the American political and social landscape radically changed. But, maybe not since as his campaign has grown many of his views seem less radical.

His long and intimate association with Rev. Wright, gives rise to questions about just how the Senator might like to change the United States. His candidacy for the Senate, we are told began in the living room of an unrepentant founder of the notorious Weather Underground. Many of this programs certainly seem to some as schemes to penalize anyone who has managed to succeed materially in America, while rewarding those who have, for whatever reason, failed.

Sen. Obama's ideas of how to conduct foreign policy, are frankly scary to many of us who prefer strength and taking active steps to prevent further attacks on the United States and its citizens by the Radical Islamic Movement. Sen. Obama promises economic stability and increased opportunities for American workers, but I fail to see how making things more difficult for businesses to expand and make a profit will accomplish those promises. Sen. Obama promises massive new Federal programs, and suggests that they will be paid for by taxing businesses and the "rich". Because he often cites the dollar costs of prosecuting the fight against our enemies in Iraq, Afghanistan, and around the world, we wonder if he might like to shift military spending away from defense to some of his social programs.

There are some troubling questions about what kind of President Obama might turn out to be. Perhaps ultimately the questions might turn out to be unfounded, but only the future will tell. Now, in this moment, the supporters of Obama can see, hear, nor speak any weakness in him.

There certainly does seem to be a very wide American desire for change. But what change is desired? I believe that "change" is more an emotional reaction to the problems and insecurities that make up our world, than a rational belief that very specific changes are needed. Each interest group want change that will advance their cause(s), but I really doubt that there is wide spread consensus for any particular change. People are tired of divisiveness and would love to an end to the acrimony that characterizes our political forum. However, I'm afraid that most folks want unanimity to happen by the wholesale acceptance of their own point of view. Compromise is one of those old values that has become discounted by those dedicated to some lofty ideal.


Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 04:18 pm
@Asherman,
Quote:
Now, in this moment, the supporters of Obama can see, hear, nor speak any weakness in him.


This is untrue, and an uncalled for exaggeration. It over-simplifies the position of your opponents into one which cannot be considered 'rational'; this is a mistake on your part, which I think that you would agree with if you thought about it for a while.

Cycloptichorn
Asherman
 
  1  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 04:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Well Cyclops, you aren't exactly Sen. Obama's greatest fan and supporter, what would you say are his weaknesses? Surely, you aren't totally convinced everything in his campaign is beyond question; so what lingering doubts do you have?

The sentence in my post that you question, is indeed a very large generalization. Even so Obama supporters do tend to talk about his and his campaign with the conviction of True Believers. They do not easily accept that anyone can disagree with their glowing faith unless they are fools, or tools of the "Forces of Darkness". Generalizations? Sure, but less extravagant than a good number of campaign ads and pronouncements by supporters of both the Democratic and Republican Parties as the election grows near.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 04:28 pm
@Asherman,
Asherman - We had a very active thread here on A2K where Obama supporters talked about what they disagreed with Obama on. Interestingly enough, when a mirrored thread was opened so that McCain supporters could do the same, the participation was almost nil.

Political excitement certainly precipitates the most extreme views on both sides. While I certainly have seen some wild Obama "fans," I've mostly seen and met Obama supporters. I don't think that many McCain supporters would like to be called "McCainiacs" just because there are people at his (and Palin's) rallies shouting utter non-sense.

I find it incredibly ingenuine that conservatives such as okie can't just agree to disagree. Instead, liberals have to be labeled "unpatriotic" or "unreal."

The masses that gather for Obama aren't just a bunch of super liberals. It's also moderate left, center, and moderate right people. People come out in huge volume to see Palin and McCain speak (although more when Palin speaks), how is this any less "messianic?" The difference is that more people are interested in hearing Obama speak. He talks about ideas to stabilize the country, while McCain spends more time talking about what we should do, and less time with character assaults, he would do better.

McCain apparently never learned that no matter how many other candles you blow out, it won't make his shine any brighter.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

So....Will Biden Be VP? - Question by blueveinedthrobber
My view on Obama - Discussion by McGentrix
Obama/ Love Him or Hate Him, We've Got Him - Discussion by Phoenix32890
Obama fumbles at Faith Forum - Discussion by slkshock7
Expert: Obama is not the antichrist - Discussion by joefromchicago
Obama's State of the Union - Discussion by maxdancona
Obama 2012? - Discussion by snood
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Obama '08?
  3. » Page 1087
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.25 seconds on 12/28/2024 at 05:35:09