sozobe
 
  1  
Wed 6 Dec, 2006 02:05 pm
Oh, not a big deal at all. Just noting.

Aaaaand onward.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Wed 6 Dec, 2006 02:14 pm
sozobe wrote:
Aaaaand onward.
Laughing

It would appear Obama is going to start with a 20 electoral vote head start. :wink:
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Wed 6 Dec, 2006 02:46 pm
sozobe wrote:
Oh, not a big deal at all. Just noting.

Aaaaand onward.

& duly noted.
If Obama does decide to run, it will beinteresting to watch, from both sides of the aisle.
His dad is black, his mom is white, he has a priveledged background, both parents PhDs, Obama went to exclusive schools, all the makings of another Camelot. His credentials can stack up against anybodys & surpass some, including Hillarys. He has made & apologized for one bobble, some now convicted swindler in Chicago & Obama had some kind of land deal. If that's all that comes out of Obamas closet, he surpasses many with his morals as well.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Thu 7 Dec, 2006 06:22 pm
Hehheh..:

Quote:
WHEN I SAY 'GO,' START RECITING YOUR FAVORITE PSALM:

Call it the Rick Warren Test for 2008 hopefuls. This from a Salon story on a joint Brownback-Obama appearance at the famously purpose-driven Saddleback Church:

    Brownback recited Psalm 100 from memory and pulled a well-worn Bible from his coat pocket to read the story of Lazarus. Obama followed by quoting from Corinthians and saying that his Bible teaches him that "God sent his only Son to Earth ... to heal the sick and comfort the weary; to feed the hungry and to clothe the naked; to befriend the outcast and to redeem those who strayed from righteousness."
Oh, snap! Actually, though, I have to say Brownback won this bout: I can quote from Corinthians, and I'm a Jew. (Watch tnr.com in the next few days for Noam Scheiber's great take on the real deal behind Brownback's religiosity.) But I'd love to see how other hopefuls perform on the Rick Warren Test: From which book of Scripture would Hillary quote? Mitt Romney?

--Eve Fairbanks
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Thu 7 Dec, 2006 08:10 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Oh, not a big deal at all. Just noting.

Aaaaand onward.

& duly noted.
If Obama does decide to run, it will beinteresting to watch, from both sides of the aisle.
His dad is black, his mom is white, he has a priveledged background, both parents PhDs, Obama went to exclusive schools, all the makings of another Camelot. His credentials can stack up against anybodys & surpass some, including Hillarys. He has made & apologized for one bobble, some now convicted swindler in Chicago & Obama had some kind of land deal. If that's all that comes out of Obamas closet, he surpasses many with his morals as well.


LoneStar, I made a prediction way way back on this thread, and it bears repeating now that Hillary is apparently going for it. Be on the watch for an Obama scandal bomb thrown in covertly by her political machine just at the right time, that is if needed by that time, to squash any hopes for Obama. I will admit it does depend on whether the press cooperates with the Clintonistas as they did before, however, because if the press decides to jump on the Obama bandwagon, they might ignore Hillary. This should be very interesting to watch. Remember, Hillary had the FBI files, but maybe Obama wasn't important enough then to warrant them compiling a good file on him, and this might help him if the race gets nasty. If I can advise Obama, Hillary will act nice on the surface, but if I was Obama, I would watch my backside very carefully and I would not walk down any dark alleys.

And if Obama decides not to run, do not ignore the possibility that the "powers that be" had a talk with him in the back room about some of the possibilities that could happen to him.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 7 Dec, 2006 08:46 pm
You have similar cloak-and-dagger scenarios for the GOP hopefuls, Okie?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Thu 7 Dec, 2006 09:18 pm
snood wrote:
You have similar cloak-and-dagger scenarios for the GOP hopefuls, Okie?


No, sorry, I don't have anything on that subject. They all look pretty benign, I think, and it is going to take a while to see what shakes out. Maybe you have some ideas? Question
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 04:57 am
Just interesting to me that you see so much potential intrigue - but only among the Dems. Surely you can unearth some scheming and backstabbing among your own, if you give it a little effort.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 06:15 am
okie wrote:
LoneStar, I made a prediction way way back on this thread, and it bears repeating now that Hillary is apparently going for it. Be on the watch for an Obama scandal bomb thrown in covertly by her political machine just at the right time, that is if needed by that time, to squash any hopes for Obama. I will admit it does depend on whether the press cooperates with the Clintonistas as they did before, however, because if the press decides to jump on the Obama bandwagon, they might ignore Hillary. This should be very interesting to watch. Remember, Hillary had the FBI files, but maybe Obama wasn't important enough then to warrant them compiling a good file on him, and this might help him if the race gets nasty. If I can advise Obama, Hillary will act nice on the surface, but if I was Obama, I would watch my backside very carefully and I would not walk down any dark alleys.

And if Obama decides not to run, do not ignore the possibility that the "powers that be" had a talk with him in the back room about some of the possibilities that could happen to him.

That's an interesting prediction, but it seems a little vague to me. What specific chain of events (or non-events) would cause you to admit that your prediction was wrong?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 08:30 am
I would think that if things don't go as Okie predicts, then we can conclude Okie is wrong. I wouldn't bet the farm against him though.

However, don't you get the idea that the mainstream media is salivating over the prospects of a Clinton/Obama face off in the primaries?

For Now, an Unofficial Rivalry
Possible Clinton-Obama Presidential Clash Has Senate Abuzz

By Charles Babington and Shailagh Murray
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, December 8, 2006; A01

On Wednesday night, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy hosted the nine Democratic members of his health and education committee at an intimate dinner in his home in Washington's Kalorama neighborhood. The surroundings were stylish, the food home-cooked and tasty.

And then there was the entertainment.

The gathering included a former presidential candidate, Sen. Tom Harkin of Iowa, and a close friend of Kennedy's, Sen. Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut. But the star attractions were Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois, two junior committee members who may be duking it out for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination in a matter of months.

The air was thick with ambition. "I don't know why we're here, Bernie," Rep. Sherrod Brown (Ohio) quipped to a fellow senator-elect, Rep. Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.), as the guests walked into the dining room.

Neither Clinton nor Obama has formally declared a candidacy, but their rivalry is already the talk of the chamber, an amusing sideshow for Democrats and Republicans -- at least the handful who aren't weighing their own White House bids.

Kennedy (Mass.) tried not to play favorites on Wednesday, seating the two superstars on his right and left at dinner. But the dais of his committee will be another matter next year, after Obama joins the panel in January: According to seniority rules, the two are likely to be seated next to each other, toward the end. There they will vie for prominence on major issues such as stem cell research, the minimum wage and college tuition subsidies.

In the fishbowl of the Senate, interactions between Clinton and Obama are frequent and closely scrutinized. During a routine vote yesterday morning, Obama and Clinton brushed past each other on the Senate floor. Obama winked and touched Clinton on her elbow. Without pausing, she kept walking.

The 100-member Senate has never run short of presidential wannabes, but this time, Democrats worry that the clash of titans will overshadow their legislative agenda, leaving mere mortals grasping for notice and potentially compromising the party's efforts to expand its Senate majority.

"Everybody's going to be fighting for oxygen at a very high altitude," said Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.).

Colleagues say Clinton and Obama appear to genuinely admire each other. So far, they claim to see zero evidence of public rancor. "Everybody gets along just fine," Harkin said. Kennedy described the pair as "extra-dimensional individuals" and asserted in an interview: "There's no sort of pettiness or jealousy that I see. They understand the momentous nature of what the search for the presidency is all about."

Behind the scenes, of course, it's a slightly different story. "Don't tell Mama, I'm for Obama" has become the Obama campaign's unofficial motto. It's a reference to Clinton's nickname as first lady and an example of the conflicted loyalties of many Democratic political aides. Some are talking to both camps about possible jobs in the presidential campaigns. Meanwhile, Democratic senators who are not considering presidential bids of their own are remaining neutral.

Some Obama allies suspect that Clinton supporters generated recent rumors that former vice president Al Gore is weighing a 2008 bid, hoping to discourage donors from signing up with Obama just yet. On Monday, Obama tiptoed onto Clinton's turf, traveling to Manhattan to talk with big-time Democratic donors such as George Soros.

Speaking later to reporters, he made a point of praising Clinton. "I think she is tough, I think she is disciplined, I think she is smart, and I'm not one of those people who believe she can't win," Obama said. "I recognize it's fun to set these things up as a contest between the two of us."

Clinton has been less effusive. She rarely comments publicly on Obama, and when she does, it's often in snippets. She declined a request to be interviewed for this article. In October, she said "it's great" that he is thinking of running for president. And Democrats credit her for letting Obama and a first-term senator, Ken Salazar (D-Colo.), headline a Capitol Hill media event last year while other senior Democrats grumbled about their nonspeaking roles.

Some of Clinton's chief supporters, however, have been less charitable. John Catsimatidis, a supermarket magnate and Clinton donor, said yesterday of Obama: "He might be ready for prime time, but I think it's too early."

Clinton and Obama were unusual senators from the start. They hired established, high-level staffers such as Pete Rouse, who was chief of staff for former Senate majority leader Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.) and took the same job in Obama's office, and Tamera Luzzatto, the former top aide to Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (W.Va.), who now runs Clinton's staff.

Both senators maintained low profiles, at least at first, restricting most public activities to home-state events. Despite their megawatt qualities, both were deferential to older colleagues, and both made friends and co-sponsored legislation with Republicans.

Because Clinton spent eight years in the White House, she is a particular anomaly, escorted through the corridors by a security detail and rarely engaging in hallway banter with reporters before and after votes. On Tuesday, Obama lingered by the elevators near the Senate floor, feeding quotes on Medicare and tax cuts to a gaggle of scribes. Clinton rushed by a few minutes later, flanked by staff members, and headed straight onto a waiting elevator.

"She likes to stand alone," said one senior Senate staffer.

Clinton's colleagues were surprised when she teamed up with former GOP House speaker Newt Gingrich (Ga.) and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (Tenn.) on health-care initiatives, and when she staked out a moderate stance on abortion in a prominent speech in January 2005. But her reluctance to hog the spotlight has earned her considerable goodwill -- to the extent that some of her colleagues have speculated that she might become the top Democratic leader someday, should her presidential bid falter.

Obama, only two years removed from the Illinois legislature, initially stirred jealousy among some colleagues for the rave reviews of his keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic convention. But he earned loads of gratitude and goodwill by campaigning doggedly for fellow Democrats this fall, often drawing the largest crowd of each campaign.

Senators say Obama's explosive rise has startled Clinton and her advisers, who are mulling how to react. With Obama planning a trip to the early-primary state of New Hampshire on Sunday, they may need to decide soon.

"Hang on tight," advised Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.), an Obama fan. "They ain't seen nothing yet."
SOURCE
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 08:39 am
This is interesting, and, of course, a useful reminder of relativity:

(Give a shout out if you cant see the image/graph)

Quote:
Gallup's Open-ended 2008 Question

Pollster.com
December 05, 2006

speaking of why it may be premature to make much of 2008 general election match-up questions, the Gallup Poll has results out from a new survey that provides yet another way to ask about presidential preference: an open-ended question. The result? For now, at least, "many Americans cannot spontaneously think of the name of a person they would like to see elected president in 2008."

Let's let Gallup's Frank Newport explain:

    The traditional way of measuring a candidate's standing a year or more before an election is to read a list of names and ask Americans which person they would support if they had to vote for one. Another measurement technique involves asking Americans to react to each of a list of names, indicating if they have ever heard of the person, and if so, whether their opinion of that person is favorable or unfavorable. The Nov. 27-29, 2006 Gallup Poll Panel study approached the issue of the 2008 presidential race in a somewhat different way. The poll asked the representative sample of Americans to respond to this question: "Thinking ahead to the election for president in 2008, who would you most like to see elected president?"
More than a third (38%) could not name a candidate. Another 5% could only narrow it down to "a Republican" or "a Democrat."

http://www.pollster.com/12-05%20Gallup%202008%20open%20end.png
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 08:47 am
Foxfyre wrote:
However, don't you get the idea that the mainstream media is salivating over the prospects of a Clinton/Obama face off in the primaries?

Yeah, I do - and its easy to see why. I mean, here you got two star-power politicians who rouse strong feelings either way, possibly battling it out - sure it will suck out much of the political oxygen. I mean, seriously - who's going to get terrifically excited about a Brownback vs McCain matchup? Yawn.

Even if Giuliani actually starts making an effort to get out into the limelight - something that, unlike Obama, he has so far failed to do - Giuluani vs McCain isnt going to raise as much sensation-seeking spectator interest of the kind the media excells in. Both fairly independent-minded pols, both, so far, seeking out a moderate, even kind tone in campaigning, neither remotely tied to Bush.. Again, from a ratings-perspective (which is all that drives the commercial mainstream media), yawn.

Now, if Condi would enter the race, then expect the mainstream media to sharply lurch their attention to the Republican race. Including lengthy, excited speculations and previews of what a Condi-Obama (!) or Condi-Hillary run-off would look like.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 10:00 am
snood wrote:
Just interesting to me that you see so much potential intrigue - but only among the Dems. Surely you can unearth some scheming and backstabbing among your own, if you give it a little effort.


There will be normal politicking, as usual, in both parties. The skeleton in the closet aspect is always something to look out for. On the Republican side, there may be a bone or two to be turned up, and if spun correctly, could hurt most any of them, but a true skeleton, I'm not sure, perhaps Giuliani has some risk for that. Maybe thats why he doesn't seem overly anxious to be in the limelight yet, at least thats my impression. I don't know yet.

Snood, you find it interesting that I see so much potential intrigue? That is I guess surprising to me, given the intrigue we had for 8 years of that bunch.

And Thomas, I guess to be convinced of being wrong about this, Hillary would need to demonstrate something that the Clintons have never demonstrated before in their political life, but instead it was a stream of underhanded tactics and devious methods, FBI files, IRS investigations, and even personal threats with their detractors. Have you not ever heard of any of this? Where have you been, or do you actually think there was nothing to all of that? Do we have to plow this old ground again and again? The thing that really surprises me is that such people ever get to be considered viable candidates in the first place.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 10:58 am
nimh wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
However, don't you get the idea that the mainstream media is salivating over the prospects of a Clinton/Obama face off in the primaries?

Yeah, I do - and its easy to see why. I mean, here you got two star-power politicians who rouse strong feelings either way, possibly battling it out - sure it will suck out much of the political oxygen. I mean, seriously - who's going to get terrifically excited about a Brownback vs McCain matchup? Yawn.

Even if Giuliani actually starts making an effort to get out into the limelight - something that, unlike Obama, he has so far failed to do - Giuluani vs McCain isnt going to raise as much sensation-seeking spectator interest of the kind the media excells in. Both fairly independent-minded pols, both, so far, seeking out a moderate, even kind tone in campaigning, neither remotely tied to Bush.. Again, from a ratings-perspective (which is all that drives the commercial mainstream media), yawn.

Now, if Condi would enter the race, then expect the mainstream media to sharply lurch their attention to the Republican race. Including lengthy, excited speculations and previews of what a Condi-Obama (!) or Condi-Hillary run-off would look like.


I agree. I frequently mention Dick Morris's predictions because despite being a pretty sleazy sort himself, his track record on predicting this stuff has been very impressive.

He is currently saying that the 2008 election is Hillary's to lose. He has previously said that Condi is the only candidate the GOP has that can beat Hillary. True or false? Like Okie's prediction, the proof can only be found in the outcome.

But personally, I think a campaign between Hillary Clinton and Condoleeza Rice would be the most fun we've had in a campaign in a long, long time. Smile

Meanwhile my political instincts are banking on a Hillary/Obama contest in the primaries with all other contenders being distant also rans.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 11:01 am
Barak Obama, Sept 2002

Quote:
"I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne."
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 11:11 am
I still don't understand why anyone would think Condi has a shot. She's married to Bush, and all he's done (super unpopular), she's black, she's a woman, and she isn't all that likeable in the first place. Unless Bush's popularity makes a miraculous recovery, I still believe she is just about the only candidate Hillary could beat. Most other Democrats, I suspect, would beat her handily, and Obama would wipe the floor with her. The writers at SNL would love it, though.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 11:18 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
I still don't understand why anyone would think Condi has a shot. She's married to Bush, and all he's done (super unpopular), she's black, she's a woman, and she isn't all that likeable in the first place. Unless Bush's popularity makes a miraculous recovery, I still believe she is just about the only candidate Hillary could beat. Most other Democrats, I suspect, would beat her handily, and Obama would wipe the floor with her. The writers at SNL would love it, though.


Condi makes the most awful faces from time to time, just when the camera is on her, it seems. There are some truly horrid pics of her floating around on the internet...

I don't think that Hillary has a shot in hell of getting the nomination, because there are millions of Progressives like myself who will fight tooth and nail to keep her from losing the presidency for us in '08.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 11:19 am
Cyclo, I think your statement is in error. LOL
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 11:23 am
Sorry, but she's no good for the presidency.

Not only does she have tons of baggage - not only is she well-hated by many on both sides of the isle; her real problem is Bill.

Every time you see the two of them on stage together, it's akward; because you just want her to shut the hell up, and Bill to start talking instead. I couldn't deal with years and years of that.

Perhaps as 'first man' Bill would have all the actual responsibilities. If I could be assured of that, I would support her, but...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Fri 8 Dec, 2006 11:37 am
At this point in time, I will be donating to Obama's run even though I do have some concerns.
0 Replies
 
 

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