OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 03:46 am
No apology necessary. No worries.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 04:15 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
No apology necessary. No worries.

Thanks Smile . I felt that I owed you an apology, it's very nice of you to say that.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 04:41 am
Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 07:20 am
Obama at Saddleback Church... http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/12/02/obama/

finn

Perhaps your argument would be more compelling if you were speaking of a Board of Directors considering candidates for CEO or a school district considering choices for superintendant or if you were searching out a new mechanic. What set of personal and interpersonal qualities, talents, intelligence and experience a person might demonstrate is quite different for such positions than for president. Particularly when a corporation, for example, or a nation are at a critical juncture. And surely the US is at such a point.

Bill offered up the example of Reagan, an ex-actor, accepted by Californians as a reasonable choice for governor and then by Americans as a choice for President. Or one could look at Arnold presently. From Canada, there is the example of Pierre Trudeau...a writer, traveller and general bon vivant with a short time in government but with immense talents and intelligence who went on to become one of the two or three most important leaders in our history. Or, one could consider the case I think is most appropriate...Lincoln. When he arrived here in New York and gave his speech at Coopers Union, he was without the sort of background you seem to consider necessary. Accounts of that speech, written by the New York press of the time still absolutely thrilling to read. The exceptional qualities of the man were evident immediately and with clarity from that single speech.

America is now, and has been for a while, deeply divided within itself. Continuation of that self-destructive dynamic moving into the complex and dangerous future we all see ahead would be tragic. Another divisive leader like Bush has been (imagine Gingrich as president now!) who moves to that divisiveness out of electoral strategies or out of us/them ideologies will take the US in a direction towards self-destruction.

There have been few points in American history when you have so needed a leader who can inspire - through charisma, integrity and intelligence - Americans to come together. Not to mention, a leader whom the rest of the world can understand and respect. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from Iraq but a fundamental one is that America cannot continue to operate as an arrogant bully with the expectation that this will bring more positive consequences than negative.

Furthermore, you really do not make an accounting of how broad (across party/ideological lines) Obama's appeal is, suggesting that it is limited to folks on the "left". Earlier here, I've quoted people like David Brooks and Pat Buchannan and David Gergen and others who have acknowledged this man's gifts and potential. That is the typical understanding from thoughtful folks on the right. They often point to Reagan as well. It is only the folks who are deeply invested in republican party dominance or in a bastardized and impoverished modern "conservative" ideology who will proceed to ignore and refute what everyone else sees.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 11:24 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Who says he won't be?

He can be both "the first black president" and "the American President." These are not mutually exclusive concepts.

In YOUR opinion, not mine.

Well, if he would become President (still a long shot IMO, but one can hope), he will be both the first black president and the president of the USA. Not much he can do about either of that. He's black, and he'd be president.

With Americans never having voted in a black man before, he's also simply going to be described as "the first black American president", whether he'd like it or not - just as Kennedy is still described as "the first Catholic president" on something approaching 11,000 webpages.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 12:16 pm
nimh wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Who says he won't be?

He can be both "the first black president" and "the American President." These are not mutually exclusive concepts.

In YOUR opinion, not mine.

Well, if he would become President (still a long shot IMO, but one can hope), he will be both the first black president and the president of the USA. Not much he can do about either of that. He's black, and he'd be president.

With Americans never having voted in a black man before, he's also simply going to be described as "the first black American president", whether he'd like it or not - just as Kennedy is still described as "the first Catholic president" on something approaching 11,000 webpages.

I think you misunderstood me. I know he'll be referred to as the first black American President", I have no problem with that, my problem is if he should be elected & is called African-American President that it would be disrespectful to America. Again, this is not Africa, this is America, this is not "Africa-America", this is America.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 02:32 pm
To each their own, I guess. I have no problem about what someone calls themselves in relation to their origins and citizenship. If I strain, I can imagine the justifications of those who would raise objections to someone refering to themselves as "African-american", or "Italian-american", or "native American", but those justifications are a bunch of muddled crap.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 02:41 pm
snood wrote:
To each their own, I guess. I have no problem about what someone calls themselves in relation to their origins and citizenship. If I strain, I can imagine the justifications of those who would raise objections to someone refering to themselves as "African-american", or "Italian-american", or "native American", but those justifications are a bunch of muddled crap.

& you have no problem with the n word either? I mean, it's just a word. To each their own, right?
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 02:42 pm
We have already had a Black president: Bill Clinton.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 02:54 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
snood wrote:
To each their own, I guess. I have no problem about what someone calls themselves in relation to their origins and citizenship. If I strain, I can imagine the justifications of those who would raise objections to someone refering to themselves as "African-american", or "Italian-american", or "native American", but those justifications are a bunch of muddled crap.

& you have no problem with the n word either? I mean, it's just a word. To each their own, right?


I'd think it would stretch even your credulity - trying to equate a word like "African-American" with a word like "nig*er". But in any case, can we just stipulate that you think it would be significantly undesirable if Obama was elected and referred to himself as "African-American", and that some disagree, and move on?
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 03:05 pm
snood wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
snood wrote:
To each their own, I guess. I have no problem about what someone calls themselves in relation to their origins and citizenship. If I strain, I can imagine the justifications of those who would raise objections to someone refering to themselves as "African-american", or "Italian-american", or "native American", but those justifications are a bunch of muddled crap.

& you have no problem with the n word either? I mean, it's just a word. To each their own, right?


I'd think it would stretch even your credulity - trying to equate a word like "African-American" with a word like "nig*er". But in any case, can we just stipulate that you think it would be significantly undesirable if Obama was elected and referred to himself as "African-American", and that some disagree, and move on?

You don't comprehend too well, do you.
You said to each his own, I assumed then that is what you meant.
To each his own
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 03:09 pm
Whatever. It's a harebrained tangent that takes away from a good thread about a real story in US politics - a potential Obama run for president.

And since your comprehension is so evolved, then you certainly perceived the suggestion that we move on.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 03:10 pm
LSM, I see your bigotry isn't limited to gays. Rolling Eyes I'm revoking the pass I was going to give you for exhibiting the comprehension skills of a child.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 03:13 pm
'Negro' means black. 'Migro' means black in Latin or Italian, I think.

The word 'nigger' was just slang for 'negro' but the usage was associated with dissing a black person thus it became derogatory.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 03:22 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
LSM, I see your bigotry isn't limited to gays. Rolling Eyes I'm revoking the pass I was going to give you for exhibiting the comprehension skills of a child.

Bigotry? How did yiou come to that?
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 03:24 pm
talk72000 wrote:
'Negro' means black. 'Migro' means black in Latin or Italian, I think.

The word 'nigger' was just slang for 'negro' but the usage was associated with dissing a black person thus it became derogatory.

That's all true, however Snood said to each his own, I asked then if the n word was ok with him.
I would have a problem with an Ameerican President being called anything other than an American President, but since only some of us, it seems are allowed to be offended by words....
<shrug>
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Sun 3 Dec, 2006 03:29 pm
Another thing OCCOM-How do you figure that I am bigoted towards gays? Because I find man boylove to be disgusting? Not only is it disgusting, it;s against the law.
Revoking the pass you gave me? I am mortally wounded, but I'll survive. BTW-Was your post just more sarcasm? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Mon 4 Dec, 2006 02:23 am
LSM is

Lima Lima Mike Foxtrot

(which, for the uninitiated, means "Lost like a motherf*cker" in Militarese)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 4 Dec, 2006 06:44 am
Is the site "ignore" function coming soon? (we pray).

Until it does, everyone, please put LSM on manual 'ignore'. Whatever her motives for involvement here might be, the consequences of her involvement are universally without positive value.

Good piece in (I think it was) the NY Times this morning on how Obama's potential candidacy has effected everyone else considering a run.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Mon 4 Dec, 2006 08:38 am
blatham wrote:


Until it does, everyone, please put LSM on manual 'ignore'. Whatever her motives for involvement here might be, the consequences of her involvement are universally without positive value.



Agreed




Quote:
0 Replies
 
 

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