Moussaoui: Killer or scapegoat?

Blame the victim?

I think not.

Off with his head!

I didn't vote for death only because I oppose the death penalty. He appears guilty to me.

Don't make him a martyr.
I think his defense lawyer Edward McMahon made some very good points.

I was under the distinct impression that the administration was warned of an impending attack, in more ways than one.
Give me the choice to off Bush's head and put a check there for me....especially if it was phrased that he could have saved 'x' number of lives (including the thousands dying in Iraq and Afghanistan).

I did not know that the administration was warned of attacks. I respectfully request akaya to explain which warnings he was talking about. I would appreciate a link.

It is not unknown for Administrations to receive warnings. It is not unknown for Administrations to ignore warnings.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/21/terror/main607659.shtml


quote:

"Six years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the CIA warned in a classified report that Islamic extremists likely would strike on U.S. soil at landmarks in Washington or New York, or through the airline industry, according to intelligence officials"

end of quote:

The warnings above took place during the Clinton Administration, long before 9/11 and in a very very specific format.

It would appear that Bill Clinton was too busy with Monica Lewinsky at the time to pay attention to the CIA warning.

Judge Unexpectedly Halts Moussaoui Trial

Bush Administration's First Memo

FAA Had Warnings Before Sept. 11 Attacks, Report Finds

January 2001 Memo Warned Bush of Al Qaeda Threat

Dems, Media Attack Bush, Ignore That Clinton Was Warned of bin Laden Plot


Conservatives were too concerned about Bubba's blowjobs when he was in office and Bush was too concerned plotting a removal of Saddam before he was in office.

Bush planned Iraq 'regime change' before becoming President

Hans Blix: iraq-war planned long in advance banned arms not the priority

Blaming Clinton is the convenient thing for conservatives to do and talking about his blowjob is the predictable thing to do. Both these guys should have done more to knock down what previous administrations helped build up, but clearly, Al Qaeda is not a priority, and it never has been for either of them.
Sadly, they were the only threat to anyone, but Al Qaeda can't quench America's thirst for oil. Saddam could.

Akaya- You say the Bush Administation had warnings of Al Queda in Jan. 2001? And he didn't do anything about it until the WTC was attacked?

Horrendous!!!!!!!!

And, of course, you know that Clinton was advised by the CIA SIX YEARS( 6) before the WTC was hit by the planes.

I would say that it took CLinton much more time to make up his mind. Some say he was concentrating on other things such as his bimbos.

I'll give you that Clinton could have done more. He worried too much about the wag the dog charges he received from his opponents during the whole Monica Lewisnky scandal.
http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000193.html

However, Bush could have done more as well, they could have at least had meetings about it instead of having meetings about Iraq.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/19/60minutes/main607356.shtml

Before you downgrade the word of this man, recall how long he was in the position he was in starting with Reagan.

**** some of you guys are thick.
You want to attribute blame to anyone other than "your guy".
Clinton and Bush fucked up on this one, as per my above post....but you are far too concerned with keeping Clinton affixed to the proverbial cross.

Get over it already.

At least 29 separate specific warnings of the 9-11 strikes.

1. NY Times: Bush Warned bin Laden Would Hijack Planes
"The White House said tonight that President Bush had been warned by American intelligence agencies in early August that Osama bin Laden was seeking to hijack aircraft..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html

2. CNN: Bush briefed on hijacking threat before 9-11
"President Bush's daily intelligence briefings in the weeks leading up to the September 11 terror attacks included a warning of the possibility that Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network would attempt to hijack a U.S.-based airliner, senior administration officials said Wednesday."
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/15/bush.sept.11/index.html

3. UK Guardian: Bush knew terrorists would hijack planes
"George Bush received specific warnings in the weeks before 11 September that an attack inside the United States was being planned by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, US government sources said yesterday?. The memo received by Bush on 6 August contained unconfirmed information passed on by British intelligence in 1998 revealing that al-Qaeda operatives had discussed hijacking a plane to negotiate the release of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the Muslim cleric imprisoned in America for his part in a plot to blow up the World Trade Centre in 1993."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,718312,00.html

4. Sunday Herald: Britain warned Bush to expect 9-11 al-Qaeda hijackings
"Britain gave President Bush a categorical warning to expect multiple airline hijackings by the al-Qaeda network a month before the September 11 attacks which killed nearly 3000 people and triggered the international war against terrorism."
http://www.sundayherald.com/24822

5. Village Voice: Officials Warned of Plans to Attack DC, NY with Planes
"The U.S. government had received repeated warnings of impending attacks?and attacks using planes directed at New York and Washington?for several years. The government never told us about what it knew was coming."
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0332/mondo4.php

6. AP: 9/11 report, Rice conflict; Bush got specific data on threats
"...the briefing given to the president a month before the suicide hijackings included recent intelligence that al-Qaida was planning to send operatives to the United States to carry out an attack using high explosives."
http://www.sunspot.net/business/nationworld/bal-te.rice29jul29,0,2620591.story?coll=bal-business-headlines

7. MSNBC: White House Briefed on Imminent bin Laden Attack
"One such CIA briefing, in July 2001, was particularly chilling and prophetic. It predicted that Osama bin Laden was about to launch a terrorist strike 'in the coming weeks,' the congressional investigators found. The intelligence briefing went on to say: 'The attack will be spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties against U.S. facilities or interests. Attack preparations have been made. Attack will occur with little or no warning.'"
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3067907/

8. MSN: Condoleezza Rice's False Statement
A: "The overwhelming bulk of the evidence was that this was an attack that was likely to take place overseas."
- White House National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, in a May 16 news briefing.

B: "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S."
- Title of the CIA's Aug. 6 briefing memo to President Bush . . .
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2066154

9. Newsweek: Day before 9-11, Pentagon Generals Cancelled Flights
"On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/629606.asp (link dead)

10. SF Gate: Mayor got 8-hour warning Before 9-11 Attacks ? September 12, 2001
For Mayor Willie Brown, the first signs that something was amiss came late Monday when he got a call from what he described as his airport security - - a full eight hours before yesterday's string of terrorist attacks -- advising him that Americans should be cautious about their air travel.

11. Florida State: Jeb Bush Declares Martial Law 9-7-01
"Based on the potential massive damage to life and property that may result from an act of terrorism at a Florida port, the necessity to protect life and property from such acts of terrorism..."
http://www.state.fl.us/eog_new/eog/orders/2001/september/eo2001-261-09-07-01.html

12. CBS News: Ashcroft Avoided Commercial Travel Prior to 9-11
"In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/national/printable303601.shtml

13. UK Independent: Taliban Mole Warning Ignored
"Weeks before the terrorist attacks on 11 September, the United States and the United Nations ignored warnings from a secret Taliban emissary that Osama bin Laden was planning a huge attack on American soil."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=331115

14. NY Times: "President Mubarek Warned US of Al Qaeda Plot”
"Egyptian intelligence warned American officials about a week before Sept. 11 that Osama bin Laden's network was in the advance stages of executing a significant operation against an American target, President Hosni Mubarak said in an interview on Sunday."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30D16F73B5E0C778CDDAF0894DA404482

15. Village Voice: US Ignored France Warnings
"A key point in unraveling why the FBI failed to follow up leads on Al Qaeda terrorism now centers on the Bureau's contemptuously brushing aside warnings from French intelligence a few days before 9-11."
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0222/ridgeway2.php

16. Intl. Herald Tribune: White House Ignored Arab Warnings
"When the hubbub about what the White House did or didn't know before Sept. 11 dies down, Congressional or other investigators should consider the specific warnings that friendly Arab intelligence services sent to Washington in the summer of 2001."
http://www.iht.com/articles/58269.html

17. UK News-Telegraph: Israel issued urgent warning of large-scale terror attacks
Israeli intelligence officials say that they warned their counterparts in the United States last month that large-scale terrorist attacks on highly visible targets on the American mainland were imminent."
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$52PMOXQAADW5PQFIQMGSFFOAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2001/09/16/wcia16.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/09/16/ixhome

18. NY Post: FBI Warned D.C. It Was A Target
"A Minnesota FBI agent investigating Zacarias Moussaoui testified yesterday that he notified the Secret Service weeks before Sept. 11 that a terror team might hijack a plane and 'hit the nation's capital.'"
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/57848.htm

19. Yahoo News: FBI Warnings Ignored
"An FBI supervisor, sounding a prophetic pre-Sept. 11 alarm, warned FBI headquarters that student pilot Zacarias Moussaoui was so dangerous he might 'take control of a plane and fly it into the World Trade Center,' a congressional investigator said in a report Tuesday."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=512&ncid=716&e=4&u=/ap/20020924/ap_on_go_co/attacks_intelligence

20. Independent: America had 12 warnings of aircraft attack
"American intelligence received many more clues before the 11 September attacks than previously disclosed, that terrorists might hijack planes and turn them into weapons, a joint congressional committee was told yesterday."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=334633

21. Washington Post: 9/11 Probe Says Agencies Failed to Heed Attack Signs
"U.S. intelligence agencies received many more indications than previously disclosed that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network was planning imminent "spectacular" attacks in the summer of 2001 aimed at inflicting mass casualties."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36754-2002Sep18.html

22. Yahoo News: Spy Agencies Had Pre-9/11 Threats on U.S. Soil
"U.S. intelligence agencies picked up threats of attacks inside the United States and of using airplanes as weapons during the spring and summer before last year's Sept. 11 attacks, but were more focused on the possibility of an assault overseas, a congressional source said on Tuesday."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=578&ncid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20020917/ts_nm/attack_congress_intelligence_dc

23. Vanity Fair: Bin Laden Relatives Secretly Evacuated From NY
"Patrick Tyler of the New York Times is reporting from Washington: 'In the first days after the attacks on Sept. 11, the Saudi Arabian ambasador to Washington, Prince Bandar ibn Sultan, supervised the urgent evacuation of 24 members of Osama bin Laden's extended family from the United States fearing they might be subjected to violence.'"
http://www.guerrillanews.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=gnn&Number=204363&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&part=all

24. Sydney Morning Herald: Administration Told US agents “Back off bin Ladens”
"US special agents were told to back off the bin Laden family and the Saudi royals soon after George Bush became president, although that has all changed since September 11, it was reported today."
http://www.old.smh.com.au/news/0111/07/world/world100.html

25. Ha'aretz Daily: CEO Says Workers Warned Hours Before World Trade Center Hit -- FBI Investigating
"Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack."
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744

26. NY Times: White House Approved Secret Evacuation of Bin Ladens After 9-11
"Richard Clarke, who ran White House crisis team after Sept 11 terror attacks, says top White House officials personally approved evacuation of dozens of influential Saudis, including relatives of Osama bin Laden, from United States in days after Sept 11, when most flights were grounded." http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/090503A.shtml

27. Tampa Tribune: Bodyguards tell of Secret Bin Laden Flight
"The hastily arranged flight out of Raytheon Airport Services, a private hangar on the outskirts of Tampa International Airport, was anything but ordinary. It lifted off the tarmac at a time when every private plane in the nation was grounded due to safety concerns after the Sept. 11 attacks. "
http://www.dirtybush.com/connectthesedots.html

28. UK Minister: "Bush had Foreknowledge of 9-11 attacks"
"...it is not surprising that some have seen the US failure to avert the 9/11 attacks as creating an invaluable pretext for attacking Afghanistan in a war that had clearly already been well planned in advance."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,1036588,00.html

MSNBC VIDEO: Moussaoui wore 'stun belt' for new testimony

Total Information Analysis | March 28 2006

If you're looking for a reason why Zacarias Moussaoui suddenly testified today to a version of the 9/11 plotline that sounds more like the Official story than even the official Whitewash Commission report, this video may have the answer.

In it, NBC news reporter Pete Williams lets slip that Moussaoui is wearing a "Stun belt" underneath his clothing controlled by US Marshals. MSNBC host Dan Abrams gets some more details on the stun belt.

A taste of the exchange:
WILLIAMS: The old outbursts were gone... He was very docile today... We believe that he's wearing one of those stun belts, and it may be that he was very worried about doing anything that would cause those Marshals to press the button....

ABRAMS: A stun belt? They literally have sOmething around his waist? That they can push a button and?

WILLIAMS: [Pause] Well...


Only in 21st-century Amerika!
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/280306_b_belt.htm

He's guilty.

Only idiots argue (in any way) otherwise.

I am against the Death Penalty, and I believe a life term is the appropriate sentence for him.

We don't want him to be a martyr.

Life imprisonment, it seems to me, is worse than execution.

Put him in the general population and he will probably be, eventually, executed.

Re: Moussaoui: Killer or scapegoat?

Bad logic, as usual. A co-conspirator in a murder should be held responsible, even if someone else's incompetence played a role.

Agreed with just about everything, except I am in favor of the death penalty in very, very limited circumstances. This guy clearly wants us to fry him, as he thinks it will be easier than a jail sentence and will provide him with some sort of delightful martyr cachet which he may feel can be used as a recruiting or inspirational tool for al Qaeda et al. So let's not give him his wish.

Instead, I'd rather see him in protective custody in prison, living to a ripe old age, well cared for courtesy of the demonic ole US of A. To put him in the prison population, I feel, will provide the martyrdom he craves. I'd rather spend some bucks and keep him in toothpaste and cable TV, a fine anti-recruiting/anti-inspirational tool, getting lazy and comfy in prison. In gnawing, maddening solitude.

I agree with both Finn and Jespah. This guy wants us to throw him in the brier patch (make him a martyr) which is the last thing we want to do.

I suspect he's a BS artist of the highest order and probably crazy as well. A life sentence will give him time to stew in his own juices...

yeah. no visitors. with nothing but his jump suit. no tv. no ipod. no paper no pencils. no prayer mat. and no quran.

put a camera in the cell and broadcast it world wide. mtv. all moussaoui, all the time.

He could have come forward. But I think just because he thought about being part of it.
Even though he didn't actually do it, I'm glad he was found guily. Lets start clearing out GITMO with more of these fair trials. Maybe those muredering bastards will get the hint. Bomb anythhing that belongs to the US and you will die.