US and China allied level North Korea?!!

the Leader of N K goes for butter too, Dys. but he is no liberal. he wants the butter to feed his people and to make them stupid and numb.

sorry, i didn't realize feeding starving people made them stupid.

what the Leader wants is to pacify the starving people lest their anxiety stirs up the society and endangers the stability of the regime. and once they are fed, they are again expected to listen to the nonesence propaganda from the government. Korea prefers a stupid population to those who would have to think why they should suffer under their hysteric leader.

so lets keep them starving then we can invade? sorry i have a hard time with this logic.

I don't think we'll be invading anywhere, anytime soon, except, maybe France.

if i could give you a punch in the stomach, you might well understand--N Korea is very likely to have nukes up in their sleeves. nukes are the last card to play, though. but if the starvation carries on, the government will realize being overthrown is the only salvation. that being the case,what do you think it will do?

cjhsa, good point!! but remember, before doing that, make sure that soldiers only kill males and do not destroy the architecutures and edfices. Thanks.

acepoly,

I think N.K. has long been on the verge of Capitalism. It has experimented with Capitalist zones within the last year.

I think if the Sunshine policy hadn't been interrupted more progress would have been made toward normalizing relations with NK and they would further capitalize their nation.

I'm not talking about the nuke question. I don't really care if they have nukes.

The chance that the people of North Korea would overthrow the government is a pipe dream. There is less chance of that happening than there was that the Iraqi's would overthrow Saddam. It is a police state with it's gulags and secret police.
The question I have is why is North Korea an American problem. I would imagine that it's neighbors, Russia, China, Japan and South Korea should be more concerned at having a rogue state with a nuclear capability in their neighborhood. What do you suppose would happen if the US stepped back? Would China step in to fill the vacuum?

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 8:45 pm Post subject: Death, terror in N. Korea gulag

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Jan. 15 ; In the far north of North Korea, in remote locations not far from the borders with China and Russia, a gulag not unlike the worst labor camps built by Mao and Stalin in the last century holds some 200,000 men, women and children accused of political crimes. A month-long investigation by NBC News, including interviews with former prisoners, guards and U.S. and South Korean officials, revealed the horrifying conditions these people must endure ; conditions that shock even those North Koreans accustomed to the near-famine conditions of Kim Jong Il;s realm.
IT;S ONE of the worst, if not the worst situation ; human rights abuse situation ; in the world today; said Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., who held hearings on the camps last year. ;There are very few places that could compete with the level of depravity, the harshness of this regime in North Korea toward its own people;
Satellite photos provided by DigitalGlobe, which first appeared in the Far Eastern Economic Review, confirm the existence of the camps, and interviews with those who have been there and with U.S. officials who study the North suggest Brownback;s assessment may be conservative.
Among NBC News findings:
At one camp, Camp 22 in Haengyong, some 50,000 prisoners toil each day in conditions that U.S. officials and former inmates say results in the death of 20 percent to 25 percent of the prison population every year.
Products made by prison laborers may wind up on U.S. store shelves, having been ;washed; first through Chinese companies that serve as intermediaries.
Entire families, including grandchildren, are incarcerated for even the most bland political statements.
Forced abortions are carried out on pregnant women so that another generation of political dissidents will be ;eradicated;
Inmates are used as human guinea pigs for testing biological and chemical agents, according to both former inmates and U.S. officials
I suggest you take the time to read the entire article. Compared to North Korea, Iraq is a playground. Where has the outcry from the human right advocates been low these many years?

http://www.msnbc.com/news/859191.asp?0sl=-43

Here's the quickest search I could do on the most reliable of those 'commie fronts', Amnesty International:

11/04/2003 North Korea: Human Rights Concerns (NEWS)
ASA 24/002/2003
30/10/2002 Japan/North Korea: five Japanese abductees must be allowed freedom of choice (NEWS)
ASA 22/007/2002
01/09/2002 People's Republic of China: Human rights violations and the crackdown on dissent continues (REPORTS)
ASA 17/047/2002
25/07/2002 China: Fear of forcible return. (URGENT ACTIONS)
ASA 17/033/2002
21/06/2002 China: Crackdown on North Koreans must end (NEWS)
ASA 17/024/2002
27/03/2002 China: Crackdown on "illegal immigrants" likely to target North Korean refugees (NEWS)
ASA 17/013/2002
03/09/2001 China: Human rights in China in 2001- a new step backwards (An Amnesty International briefing) (REPORTS)
ASA 17/028/2001
14/08/2001 China: Hundreds of North Koreans forced back across the border (NEWS)
ASA 17/026/2001
18/07/2001 Democratic People's Republic of Korea: Human rights under scrutiny in the UN (NEWS)
ASA 24/001/2001
27/06/2001 China/Democratic People's Republic of Korea: Asylum seekers must be protected (NEWS)
ASA 17/021/2001
15/12/2000 North Korea: Persecuting the starving (NEWS)
ASA 24/004/2000
15/12/2000 Democratic People's Republic of Korea: Persecuting the starving: The plight of North Koreans fleeing to China (REPORTS)
ASA 24/003/2000
26/06/2000 East Asia: Amnesty International urges Korean leaders to respect human rights (NEWS)
ASA 24/002/2000
09/06/2000 East Asia: Peace and prosperity for the two Koreas depends on human rights (NEWS)
ASA 02/001/2000
04/05/2000 People's Republic of China/Democratic People's Republic of Korea: Forcible Return / Fear for Safety - Asylum-seekers from North Korea (URGENT ACTIONS)
ASA 17/021/2000
07/06/2000 People's Republic of China/Democratic People's Republic of Korea: Further information on forcible Return / Fear for Safety - Asylum-seekers from North Korea (URGENT ACTIONS)
ASA 24/001/2000
01/06/1999 Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea): Conditions of detention (REPORTS)
ASA 24/003/1999
01/05/1998 Republic of Korea (South Korea): Long term prisoners still held under the National Security Law (REPORTS)
ASA 25/015/1998
08/10/1997 North Korea: General Secretary Kim Jong Il should consider human rights reforms (NEWS)
ASA 24/012/1997
06/10/1997 North Korea: The fate of those who flee: The case of Li song Nam (REPORTS)
ASA 24/011/1997
05/09/1997 Japan & North Korea: Governments should be open on issue of forcible abductions (NEWS)
ASA 02/001/1997
01/03/1997 Death Penalty News March 1997 (REPORTS)
ACT 53/002/1997
22/01/1997 Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea): Public executions: converging Testimonies (REPORTS)
ASA 24/001/1997
22/01/1997 North Korea: Public executions in North Korea (NEWS)
ASA 24/004/1997
09/09/1996 Democratic People's Republic of Korea/Russian Federation: Pursuit, intimidation and abuse of North Korean refugees and workers (REPORTS)
ASA 24/006/1996
06/06/1996 North Korea / Russian Federation: North Korean shot dead at Russian border by North Korean officials (NEWS)
ASA 24/005/1996
01/02/1996 Russian Federation: Refoulement of Lee Yen Sen: fear for safety in North Korea (REPORTS)
EUR 46/006/1996
AI Library

Au1929

the brainwashing does take hold in silencing dissent in N Korea. people are much more resigned to their suffering than those in Iraq. and the possibliity of overthrowing the totalitarian government is small, if any. yes, i admit it is the sympathy in the first place for those people that made me try to think of a way to destroy the dictatorship in N Korea. the way i turn to should be coherent within the frame of contemporary international politics.

besides, the concessions N Korth can trade for foreign aid this time is only to dump its research on atom weapons which N Korea has already claimed to have. and no other concessions including preserving basic human rights , etc are not entertained by N Korea. the tactic N Korea has recourse to is intimidation rather than showing postures of cooperation. this, more or less, renders the neighboring states in potential dangers because as a totalitarian state, prediction of what it is going to do is certainly difficult.

if it does have nukes in arsenal, i think things are going to be really complicated. but if not, a war to preempt the chance of its having nuclear weapons is really really urgent and effective.

Nuclear Chicken

The hawks have their own plans for Pyongyang

By Richard Wolffe
NEWSWEEK

May 5 issue ;What are they smoking asked one exasperated State Department official after last week;s abrupt and abrasive talks with North Korea. ;Which alternative universe do they inhabit; He wasnt talking about the eccentric North Koreans and their nuclear brinkmanship. Instead the senior diplomat was frustrated by an equally tenacious foe: the conservative in-house critics of Secretary of State Colin Powell.

IT;S A MARK of just how deep the wounds go inside George W. Bush;s supposedly self-disciplined administration. While Kim Jong Il pushes Asia to the brink of a nuclear arms race, Washington;s best and brightest push each other over the edge of patience and civility. Of course, friendly fire between the State and Defense departments has ricocheted around the Bush administration for the past two years. But after the failure of the latest attempt to negotiate with the Stalinist regime in Pyongyang, the administration faces its worst infighting to date;worse even than the prewar skirmishes on Iraq.
        The latest squabbling began with Powell;s secretive planning for the North Korean talks held in Beijing last week. For more than a month, after his brief trip to China in February, Powell worked to stage a three-way session with the mercurial North Koreans and their longtime Chinese backers. Powell toiled outside the usual National Security Council meetings to deal directly with the White House. Key conservatives, who oppose negotiating with the North, were clueless until it was too late and Bush had already agreed. Many hawks, including Pentagon officials close to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, only heard about the talks from midlevel Japanese officials, NEWSWEEK has learned.
        Rumsfeld struck back with two memos outlining the Pentagon;s policy prescriptions. At their heart, the Rummygrams argue for an unlikely alliance with China to force the collapse of the North Korean regime. It was that suggestion that prompted the outburst by the senior State Department official about the smoking habits of his counterparts at the Pentagon. Why would China want to topple its own ally in Pyongyang and trigger a massive refugee crisis on its border? ;This is total fantasy; he said.
        Fantasy or not, the hawks are winning. In their view, the only benefit of talking to Kim is to prove to the world how belligerent he can be. That strategy seemed to succeed last week in Beijing, where the North threatened to test or export its nukes. Ultimately, the hawks want to bleed Kim;s regime by closing down his illicit trade in drugs and arms. A blockade could trigger a military response from the North, and even the hawks admit they;re not ready for war any time soon (certainly not in a presidential election year). Still, their hard-line policy seems to be heading in that direction. ;Things spiral down from here; admits one. The remaining question is whether the doves;and the Chinese;are ready to take the dive, too.

With N Korea gone that would leave on Cuba as the last 'Communist' regime to kick around. How's the Pentagon going to get a $1 trillion to protect the USA from that aggressor?