Who's booty you kissing?

Okay...I am dying to hear the rationalizations why this all makes fine sense...and that the punishment was not out of proportion to the transgression.

wandeljw wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

Neo wrote:

Quote:

I thought perhaps this thread might be serious, but now that my 'eyes have been opened', I see it has degenerated into a word smorgasbord. Interesting to note that when Adam and Eve's eyes were opened, they covered their bodies. Perhaps us guys can go to the strip club so long as we keep our eyes closed.

I think Neo is being unfair. Both Frank and Hephzibah have made serious points. Frank has argued that Adam and Eve were punished for becoming more god-like. However, I think Hephzibah effectively points out that God intended them to be somewhat god-like (references in Genesis about creating man in his image and giving man dominion over other creatures.)

Thank you wandel. I understand though why people could get frustrated with this. Going around in circles is only fun the first time. Maybe the second time is a little fun... but eventually it just gets old.

. . . Do you know of any instance in the Bible where Satan actually lies? NOT where he is called a liar or deceiver, but something he actually said that was untruthful. . .

Adam and Eve did not know good from evil...they were tempted by the greatest tempter of all time...and the infraction actually gained them knowledge.

They were innocents...naive new borns.

It was an act of disobedience...but the extenuating circumstances are enormous.

So what was the punishment.

The book...the entire library...was thrown at them.

Worse than 10 consecutive life sentences.

They were cast out of paradise...cause to feel pain...subjected to death...and a bunch of other stuff.

AND ALL THE REST OF HUMANITY FOR ALL THE REST OF TIME were subjected to that same punishment.

Let's talk for a bit about the "punishment." (This is pretty much my final installment on the first 3 chapters of Genesis.)



Adam and Eve did not know good from evil...they were tempted by the greatest tempter of all time...and the infraction actually gained them knowledge.

They were innocents...naive new borns.

It was an act of disobedience...but the extenuating circumstances are enormous.

So what was the punishment.

The book...the entire library...was thrown at them.

Worse than 10 consecutive life sentences.

They were cast out of paradise...cause to feel pain...subjected to death...and a bunch of other stuff.

AND ALL THE REST OF HUMANITY FOR ALL THE REST OF TIME were subjected to that same punishment.

Okay...I am dying to hear the rationalizations why this all makes fine sense...and that the punishment was not out of proportion to the transgression.

hephzibah wrote:

wandeljw wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

Neo wrote:

Quote:

I thought perhaps this thread might be serious, but now that my 'eyes have been opened', I see it has degenerated into a word smorgasbord. Interesting to note that when Adam and Eve's eyes were opened, they covered their bodies. Perhaps us guys can go to the strip club so long as we keep our eyes closed.

I think Neo is being unfair. Both Frank and Hephzibah have made serious points. Frank has argued that Adam and Eve were punished for becoming more god-like. However, I think Hephzibah effectively points out that God intended them to be somewhat god-like (references in Genesis about creating man in his image and giving man dominion over other creatures.)

Thank you wandel. I understand though why people could get frustrated with this. Going around in circles is only fun the first time. Maybe the second time is a little fun... but eventually it just gets old.

ER.

I was referring to Terry's laughingly recondite interpretation of one's eyes being opened.

This topic did start with the word 'booty' did it not?

Terry wrote:

. . . Do you know of any instance in the Bible where Satan actually lies? NOT where he is called a liar or deceiver, but something he actually said that was untruthful. . .

Aside from the book of Genesis, How about the book of Job?

It is very convenient to put Satan in the hero role. Surely, Jesus did not.

[They were cast out of paradise, yes. To prevent them from eating from the tree of life and living forever. (edit:) I believe it was to keep them from living in a continual state of disobedience to God. Had they done that there would have been no hope for redemption.

Author: The Book of Job does not specifically name its author. The most likely candidates are Job, Elihu, Moses and Solomon.

Date of Writing: The date of the authorship of the Book of Job would go in connection with the author of the Book of Job. If Moses was the author, the date would be around 1440 B.C. If Solomon was the author, the date would be around 950 B.C.

Purpose of Writing: The Book of Job helps us to understand the following: Satan cannot bring financial and physical destruction upon us unless it is by God's permission. God has power over what Satan can and cannot do. It is beyond our human ability to understand the "why's" behind all the suffering in the world. The wicked will receive their just dues. We cannot always blame our suffering and sin on our lifestyles. Suffering may sometimes be allowed in our lives to purify, test, teach or strengthen the soul. God remains enough, deserves and requests our love and praise in all circumstances of life.

Key Verses: Job 1:1, "In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil."

Job 1:21, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised."

Job 38:1-2, "Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said, 'Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?'"

Job 42:5-6, "My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes."

Brief Summary: Why do the righteous suffer? This is the question raised after Job loses his family, his wealth, and his health. Job's 3 friends, Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar, come to comfort him and to discuss his crushing series of tragedies. They insist his suffering is punishment for sin in his life. Job, though, remains devoted to God through all of this and contends that his life has not been one of sin. A fourth man, Elihu, tells Job he needs to humble himself and submit to God's use of trials to purify his life. Finally, Job questions God Himself and learns valuable lessons about the sovereignty of God and his need to totally trust in the Lord. Job is then restored to health, happiness and prosperity beyond his earlier state.

Practical Application: Don't get angry at God. Use problems to strengthen your character and bring glory to God. Refuse to be proud. Do you feel like God has left you to face your problems alone? Trust God to work in your life day by day. Let God be your source of security.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Job.html

Because God would allow Satan to do something DOES NOT MEAN GOD IS THE ONE DOING IT! If you allowed someone to eat at your table, does it mean you are the one that ate?

Satan tells no lies? Surely, you are not serious?

Frank wrote:

Quote:

Adam and Eve did not know good from evil...they were tempted by the greatest tempter of all time...and the infraction actually gained them knowledge.

They were innocents...naive new borns.

Agreed.

Frank wrote:

Quote:

It was an act of disobedience...but the extenuating circumstances are enormous.

So what was the punishment.

The book...the entire library...was thrown at them.

Worse than 10 consecutive life sentences.

Ok.

Frank wrote:

Quote:

They were cast out of paradise...cause to feel pain...subjected to death...and a bunch of other stuff.

The reason for them being cast out of the garden is stated quite clearly in Genesis 3:

21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. 22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever

Please note that it says "... and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." It does not say, "...and eat, live forever, and become more god like." So I have a question first:

Why did God cloth them?

If His only concern was to "punish" them, why then did He not cause them to continue to live in their state of nakedness as a continual reminder of their failure?

They were cast out of paradise, yes. To prevent them from eating from the tree of life and living forever. (edit:) I believe it was to keep them from living in a continual state of disobedience to God. Had they done that there would have been no hope for redemption.

The pain they were "caused to feel" is the direct result of the knowledge of good and evil. It is something they "were not aware of" even existing until they had that knowledge.

The death they were "subjected to" was the death they were warned about.

Frank wrote:

Quote:

AND ALL THE REST OF HUMANITY FOR ALL THE REST OF TIME were subjected to that same punishment.

It is not "punishment" Frank. It is the consequence of the choice they made. There is a difference between the two.

After what he did to Job, that is the lesson to take from it? Trust god for your source of security? I insist God stay away from my family.

Can we please not get sidetracked in this thread? It's so easy to do. I know. I'm struggling with it myself. But I would appreciate it if the issues other than the first three books of Genesis could go elsewhere. Sorry. Not trying to be rude. I would just really try to stay focused on the issue at hand without throwing too many things in the mix. Thanks.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Let's talk for a bit about the "punishment." (This is pretty much my final installment on the first 3 chapters of Genesis.)



Adam and Eve did not know good from evil...they were tempted by the greatest tempter of all time...and the infraction actually gained them knowledge.

They were innocents...naive new borns.

The only naivete here is in the boldness of your assumption, Frank.

Frank Apisa wrote:

It was an act of disobedience...but the extenuating circumstances are enormous.

So what was the punishment.

The book...the entire library...was thrown at them.

Worse than 10 consecutive life sentences.

They were cast out of paradise...cause to feel pain...subjected to death...and a bunch of other stuff.

If they had been permitted to live without a perfect moral standard, would that have been better?

We would continue to have evil and misery. We just couldn't die.

Frank Apisa wrote:

AND ALL THE REST OF HUMANITY FOR ALL THE REST OF TIME were subjected to that same punishment.

False! God immediately set in motion the redemption of mankind

Frank Apisa wrote:

Okay...I am dying to hear the rationalizations why this all makes fine sense...and that the punishment was not out of proportion to the transgression.

I am not going to tell you that 6,000 years of human misery compares to the eating of a fruit. However, the responsibility falls, not on God, but on the rebel.

Have a nice day, Frank.

Why should I...or you...or MA...or anyone else be subjected to "consequences" of any kind because of the choices Adam and Eve made????