Holocaust denier gets three years

Well as a famous Brit comedian (Dick Emery) said

OO you are awful
But I do like you.

Smile

0 Replies

Louise_R_Heller wrote:

As to the communion wine, could you have confused me with either the person hospitalized for alcoholism or the one claiming to have 4 full-time jobs one of them being tap-dancer in a musical theater??

four full-time jobs? i wish. one is more than plenty for me, thank you. besides, what on earth does that have to do with this thread? and, you know, i am here. no need to refer to me in third person. you can talk to me directly.

0 Replies

I think Louise has a special technique for getting up someone's nose Dag. Dont take it personally, especially when she's being personal.

0 Replies

Louise_R_Heller wrote:

As to the communion wine, could you have confused me with either the person hospitalized for alcoholism

I'm not hospitalised, dear Louse - I've helped some persons who are there, that's correct, for money as well as voluntarily.
But even that is more than ten years ago.

And 'yes', I've got a alcohol therapy 23 years ago.
Congratulations: you're the first person to give that a negative tone.

But if you have problems with it - I've got a license in client-centered therapy ... ...

0 Replies

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

Well as a famous Brit comedian (Dick Emery) said

OO you are awful
But I do like you.

Thank you Steve, I like you too.

That was personal but the stuff concerning the Stalinists was not: I never mentioned not just names but not even personal pronouns.

and yes I do use the word advisedly: Lysenko (to take a name from my own field, biology) was a favorite of Stalin. For decades Russian biologists were terrified of saying Lysenko is a dangerous fraud because if they did (obviously with all the force of scientific proof on their side) they were sure to be dispatched to freeze in some Siberian "reeducation camp".

And NO there is no difference between THAT and sending Irving to jail for expressing an opinion however absurd or counterfactual.

Anybody who doesn't see this is ipso facto a Stalinist whether he's too befuddled to admit it or not.

0 Replies

One last thought on that subject........isn't freedom of expression one of the basic human rights? I know for a fact that Austria has signed the international conventions of human rights and I think so has Germany and all the other European countries.

Isn't this Stalinist legislation that sent Irving to indefinite incarceration a flagrant breach of law if international treaties supersede domestic laws which they do???

0 Replies

Louise_R_Heller wrote:

One last thought on that subject........isn't freedom of expression one of the basic human rights? I know for a fact that Austria has signed the international conventions of human rights and I think so has Germany and all the other European countries.

Yes.

Louise_R_Heller wrote:

Isn't this Stalinist legislation that sent Irving to indefinite incarceration a flagrant breach of law if international treaties supersede domestic laws which they do???

No.

0 Replies

Louise_R_Heller wrote:

Anybody who doesn't see this is ipso facto a Stalinist

Because Stalin imprisoned Lysenko, who was a biologist

And the government of Austria (see below) imprisoned Irving, who is an historian

It does not follow that the government of Austria or anyone supporting Irving's imprisonment must ipso facto be Stalinist.

Irving has such a colossal ego that he thought the Austrians would never dare imprison him. Well you stick two fingers up at a judicial system in any country...and see what happens. Irving is a fool.

Nevertheless it was imo stupid of the Austrian authorities to "rise to the bait" and actually imprison him.

Government of Austria

Legislative branch:
bicameral Federal Assembly or Bundesversammlung consists of Federal Council or Bundesrat (62 members; members represent each of the states on the basis of population, but with each state having at least three representatives; members serve a five- or six-year term) and the National Council or Nationalrat (183 seats; members elected by direct popular vote to serve four-year terms)
elections: National Council - last held 24 November 2002 (next to be held in the fall of 2006)
election results: National Council - percent of vote by party - OeVP 42.3%, SPOe 36.5%, FPOe 10.0%, Greens 9.5%; seats by party - OeVP 79, SPOe 69, FPOe 18, Greens 17; seating as of May 2005 after split within the Freedom Party: OeVP 79, SPOe 69, Greens 17, BZOe 11, FPOe 7.

Doesnt sound very Stalinist to me Louise.

0 Replies

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

Nevertheless it was imo stupid of the Austrian authorities to "rise to the bait" and actually imprison him.

I may sound so - but since it is an "Offizialdelikt" (= offence requiring public prosecution), they really couldn't do different - or got prosecuted themselves.

0 Replies

But Irving knew he was liable for prosecution. Why did he go to Austria? I dont think he wanted to be a martyr.

0 Replies

There are lots of books about the psyche of Nazis, Nazi-friends etc on the market - none with a convincingly checkable opinion, IMHO.

0 Replies

You know Walter I am really puzzled by this guy Irving.

He's certainly a maverick character. But he wrote a widely acclaimed history "Hitlers War".

He's certainly no idiot...well not in the commonly understood meaning.

I understand why there are laws in Germany and Austria about Holocaust denial etc...although I think the time has passed for them to be any use.

But I find it very difficult to just dismiss Irving as a nazi sympathiser. And even if he is, what are we so afraid of that we have to jail someone for making an interpretation of history which is different from current theories?

You might say only a Brit or an American could ask that because we have not lived through the nazi times...but it does worry me that Irving is in gaol only for something he said...and because he repeated it to a reporter, they are trying to increase the sentence!

0 Replies

Indeed, mostly (beside Lousie, but she might have different resons) only a Brit or an American ask that.

Which is surprising for many of us here - since these laws were introduced due to exactly their advice.

I don't live in Austria (only more than half of my relatives Laughing

), but perhaps citizens will elect their a different parliament (the rights are rather weak momentarily) and the far right party/parties will change the law then.

You might hope for such.

0 Replies

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

He's certainly a maverick character. But he wrote a widely acclaimed history "Hitlers War".

<snip>

And even if he is, what are we so afraid of that we have to jail someone for making an interpretation of history which is different from current theories?

See? That's exactly the point, Steve. Maverick character. Writes a widely acclaimed book. Spreads his version of history.

Has happened before, and the laws were probably made to prevent it from happening again.....

0 Replies

old europe wrote:

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
He's certainly a maverick character. But he wrote a widely acclaimed history "Hitlers War".

<snip>

And even if he is, what are we so afraid of that we have to jail someone for making an interpretation of history which is different from current theories?

See? That's exactly the point, Steve. Maverick character. Writes a widely acclaimed book. Spreads his version of history.

Has happened before, and the laws were probably made to prevent it from happening again.....

So its only gagging laws that are stopping the rise of another Adolf Hitler? Thats the logic of what you are saying and I dont believe it for a moment.

0 Replies

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

So its only gagging laws that are stopping the rise of another Adolf Hitler? Thats the logic of what you are saying and I dont believe it for a moment.

He said:

old europe wrote:

]Has happened before, and the laws were probably made to prevent it from happening again.....

Probaly that is. And OE didn't mention Hitler.

0 Replies

Yes, that's the logic. From the perspective of 1945, why do you think it's unreasonable?

0 Replies

§3 of the Austrian Prohibition Law (Verbotsgesetz) - prohibiting the resurrection of the NSDAP - is explicitly titled "Wiederbetätigung" or Reactivation.

That should be a clue, in my opinion.

The discussion of how the law has to be seen in today's context is yet another matter, but I would say the intention of those writing the law is pretty obvious....

0 Replies

I find it disturbing when lies are referred to "interpretations" of history.

Feels very 'thin edge of the wedge' to me.

Perhaps it's the community I live in - but sensitivity to the reality of the concentration camps and the murders of so many innocent people is still crucial. People still fear that if the truth of the camps is ignored/played down, it could happen again. People are afraid.

The holocaust is not something to be "interpreted".

0 Replies

[Concentration camps were not onyl related to Holocaust: in a nearby KZ out of 3,300 prisoners 2,000 died within the 2 years of it's existence - Jehovas Witnesses, Social-Democrats, homosexuals mainly.]

0 Replies

Holocaust denier gets three years

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know