I am sick and tired of the tribal mentality. I believe that these kind of attitudes is what is causing so much dissention, not only on A2K, but in the entire world, and I hate it.
I think that if we interact, one on one, as individuals, a lot of the crap that is going on would be avoided. As for me, I refuse to become involved, any more, in pissing contests.
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roger
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 08:23 am
So far, at least, it hasn't proven contageous.
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Setanta
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 08:44 am
MOAN makes no apology, and despite being proven a liar by quotes from the "spiritwarrior" site, tries to brazen it out. Intrepid continues to defend MOAN, and to try to characterize her critics as wrong, rather than acknowledging that he was duped along with everyone else. RexRed has now threatened Habibi by saying he will import a buncha bible thumpers here if Nimh doesn't shut up.
The most pathetic and eerie thing is that in at least one post at the "spiritwarrior" site, A2K was described as: "It's an all religion forum with so many lost people it's scary." These jokers can see nothing but the S & R forum, and they're all geared up to come here and do battle.
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echi
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 09:53 am
I think this issue of a Christian onslaught on A2K could only become a problem if they drastically increased their numbers and then decided to shut everyone else out. (A Christian who cannot be baited? Who ever heard of such a thing?) Christians seem to love a good fight, but they hate reasoned debate. As long as we insist on reason, holding everyone to that standard and not engaging in (too much) retaliatory nonsense, I don't see how Christians, or any other such group, can get a good foothold.
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Treya
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 09:55 am
And once again the "Us against Them" mentality rears it's ugly head....
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sozobe
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:09 am
OK, what I don't get about this garment-rending is that we're talking about one person at the center of this. Just one. She's skilled at the emotional stuff and has gotten a lot of people riled up, but this isn't Hatfields and McCoys, one big group against another big group, it's really just one person. Iljc and I'mtheotherone are pretty much non-entities in terms of any lasting impact, Rex Reed has been around for a while, hephzibah has more to her, hasn't been around as much, and gets accolades for her ability to make sense and acknowledge when she's wrong.
These threads are themselves contributing to whatever importance this issue has. It's not the number of people, it's the amount that it's being talked about.
As in, if your complaint is that it's taking over A2K, this nothing but another drop in the wave.
(Personally, I think it's something that is important, needs to be talked about, has been, not going anywhere further, time to move on...)
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echi
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:12 am
IMO, it is "Us and Them". It's impossible to have a constructive dialogue with someone who has no respect for reason.
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Arella Mae
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:18 am
Setanta,
Well, you obviously don't pay a single bit of attention to anything other than what you want to. I have explained this all more than once. Yet, you just won't let it go, will you? Makes me wonder why? Are my beliefs such a threat to you?
I have explained, apologized for what I DID do wrong, and am now moving on. I am with Sozobe, I think it's time we all moved on.
echi,
QED, as Setanta would say. Seems the "religious" ARE considered not worthy of debate because why? Oh, I see, we have no respect for reason.
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sozobe
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:22 am
(For the record, I don't think there has been an adequate acknowledgement for what actually upsets people, Momma Angel -- you've apologized for some things, but have stood by the pillar. Nonetheless, I'm not under any illusions that this central disagreement will ever be resolved/ that you'll ever back down from that or adequately acknowledge it, so I don't think there's anything to be gained from whapping that particular lifeless equine.)
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echi
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:30 am
Momma--
I was just indicating to Hep how I classify Us and Them. I don't have any prejudice against Christians. It is a fact, however, that the Christian position is not rooted in reason. If you take reason out of the picture, then what is left to maintain structure and meaning? This is not a Bible forum.
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Arella Mae
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:30 am
Sozobe,
Perhaps you could help. Can you explain exactly to me what it is that everyone is so upset about. I mean very specifically? I believe I understand they all feel betrayed and I can understand why they feel that way.
Perhaps I am not fully understanding what is upsetting them. I will address whatever it is, Sozobe. If I am wrong I will admit I am wrong.
I, obviously, do not understand the depth of what is going on and I would like to. So, if you could answer this, I would appreciate it. If you choose not to, I will understand.
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Arella Mae
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:33 am
echi,
I think you are a very, very dear person. But, can't you see how a statement like "that the Christian position is not rooted in reason" automatically shows a bias in the discussion, no matter what it is?
I know you do not discriminate against anyone, echi. At least, I've never seen you do it on A2K. I just was very surprised at your statement.
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sozobe
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:34 am
I think it's all been said, Momma Angel, especially by nimh. I don't think I could do anything but point to what he's said.
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Acquiunk
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:38 am
Sozobe, could you provide a link to the posting by nimh that you feel is particularly pertinent?
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echi
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:39 am
Momma Angel wrote:
echi,
I think you are a very, very dear person. But, can't you see how a statement like "that the Christian position is not rooted in reason" automatically shows a bias in the discussion, no matter what it is?
I know you do not discriminate against anyone, echi. At least, I've never seen you do it on A2K. I just was very surprised at your statement.
You're right. My comment was insensitive. I apologize for that. But, isn't the statement basically true?
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sozobe
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:41 am
Sure, Acquiunk I'll look for one. Just a sec...
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Arella Mae
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:42 am
echi,
No, I don't think it is basically true. I do not believe that just because someone has religious beliefs that automatically makes them unreasonable. All it makes them is having differing views and opinions than someone else. That is all it does.
There are some very educated and intelligent people on A2K, religious and non-religious alike. I am just pointing out that the "us vs. them" mentality is not a one-sided thing.
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Questioner
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:45 am
Momma Angel wrote:
echi,
No, I don't think it is basically true. I do not believe that just because someone has religious beliefs that automatically makes them unreasonable. All it makes them is having differing views and opinions than someone else. That is all it does.
There are some very educated and intelligent people on A2K, religious and non-religious alike. I am just pointing out that the "us vs. them" mentality is not a one-sided thing.
Yes, the statement is true. We've discussed this and provided extremely valid reasoning as to why it IS true. But then, that's the catch, we provided 'reasoning'.
The level of education and intellect has nothing to do with someone labeling a belief system that defies logic as 'irrational' or 'unreasonable'.
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sozobe
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Wed 1 Feb, 2006 10:48 am
Hmm, I agree with the sum of his postings, and their reactions to what Momma Angel said, so it's kind of hard to pick out just one or two, but these are probably the crux of it:
When I posted on that other site asking other Christians to come to this site, I only had the thought of perhaps if there were more Christians it would counteract some of what the non-believers were posting. That I will not deny. I did not, however, think that we were going to storm A2K and convert the lot of you. [..] Yes, I thought if there were more Christians maybe, just maybe some of the mocking of God would stop.[/b]
Yes, you were just very modestly, shily, trying to gently come up with ways to perhaps, well, at most stop some of this mocking, you know?
Hence the talk of joining A2K being part of a "cultural war" and those joining A2K's ranks of Christians forming a "mighty army of the Lord".
I mean, you sound like one of those Islamic fundamentalists on that other site.
The Q of whether or not you recruited how many others is a side issue to me, btw. Its the whole dissembling thing about your own motivations that I found most offensive.
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