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IF THE QURAN IS WRONG THEN PROVE IT ALL.

 
 
ali87
 
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Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 01:59 pm
What about Mary, Jesus' Mother peace be upon both of them? How old was she when she got pregnant?

Not only was it a custom in the Arab society to Engage/Marry a young girl it was also common in the Jewish society. The case of Mary the mother of Jesus comes to mind, in non biblical sources she was between 11-14 years old when she conceived Jesus. Mary had already been "BETHROED" to Joseph before conceiving Jesus. Joseph was a much older man. therefore Mary was younger than 11-14 years of age when she was "BETHROED" to Joseph. We Muslims would never call Joseph a Child Molester, nor would we refer to the "Holy Ghost" of the Bible, that "Impregnated" Mary as a "Rapist" or "Adulterer".

This paragraph was sent to me by brother Mike, who embraced Islam recently; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him: According to the Priest of Saint Mary's Catholic Church: "Mary was approximately 14 years old when she got pregnant with Jesus. Joseph, Mary's Husband is believed to be around 36. Mary was only 13 when she married Joseph. When she first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old."

According to the "Oxford Dictionary Bible" commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was was 12 years old when she became impregnated.

So if I want to be as silly and ridiculous as many of the Christians, I would respond to them by saying that Mary was psychologically and emotionally devastated for getting pregnant at a very young age. And speaking of "child molesting", since most Christians believe that Jesus is the Creator of this universe, then why did GOD allow himself to enter life through a 12-year old young girl's vagina? Please note that we Muslims love and respect Allah Almighty, Mary, Jesus and Allah's Message to the People of the Book (The Jews and Christians). In other words, we Muslims would never make fun of Christianity through such childish topic like this one as many ridiculous Christians do make fun of Islam through our Prophet's (peace be upon him) marriage.
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ali87
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 01:59 pm
What about the X-Rated Pornography in the Bible?

When we read the Bible, we learn about some weird pornographic teachings that are certainly not appropriate for anyone with morals to read. Please visit X-Rated Pornography in the Bible to see the many pornographic verses in the Bible. You will read for instance, about Solomon's wife's vagina tastes like wine for him!

You will also see examples of Prophets sleeping with their neighbor's wives, such as the following:

David watches a women bathe, likes what he sees, and "goes in unto her." Let us look at 2 Samuel 11:2-4 "One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, 'Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?' Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.) Then she went back home." This Holy Figure in the Bible is a pervert!.

So what happened to "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (From the NIV Bible, Leviticus 20:10)"????

How come Leviticus 20:10 was compromised in the Bible and was never applied to King David?! Didn't King David know about this law? Yet, the Jews use his star as their holy symbol; the David Star, and the Christians call Jesus his son; "Son of David".

It seems to me quite clearly that the Bible is nothing but a compromised corrupted Book as Jeremiah 8:8, 2 Samuel 11:2-4 and Leviticus 20:10 suggest.

If the strong eats the weak in the Bible, then what moral and wisdom are we to learn from this book?
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 02:00 pm
You are a dinkus.
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kickycan
 
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Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 02:09 pm
It is amazing how much time and energy this Ali guy seems to waste on this mumbo jumbo. What a shame. Why, he might actually be the guy to find the cure for AIDs, and instead, he's on an internet forum, shouting about shadows.

A waste of a good mind, is what it is. Sad.
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 02:30 pm
It's a chore reading through every single post that Ali has posted. It really is. Frankly, I'm not interested in reading it all and I suspect that nobody here has read it all.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if half of the examples you gave, ali, were merely the result of you reading too much in between the lines.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 02:35 pm
You just make this sh!t up as you go along, don't ya, Ali? Or rather, you rely on web sites which either make it up or repeat someone else's story. Menstruation at age nine? Horseshit, and then you trot out that egregious crapola about climate and sexual maturity.

The fact remains, that your boy Mohammed was a lecherous old bastard, illiterate and totally given over to his unnatural lusts. Nine years old, indeed . . .
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ali87
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 02:59 pm
Let's discuss the age of Aisha being 9 when she married our Prophet in Islam!


http://www.answering-christianity.com/aisha.htm

atleast he MARRIED HER
its not like the bible where THREE YEAR OLD GIRLS WERE RAPED UNDER MOSES'S COMMAND.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:01 pm
Idiocy knows no ideology - its an equal-opportunity handicap.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:04 pm
I don't dispute for a moment that the god of the old testament was a vicious shite . . . but then, i don't think your boy Allah is any better, and your boy Mohammed was an illiterate rapist of a nine-year-old girl, something which you don't bother to deny.

Mohemmed (may he rot in the earth as do all humans) was a self-indulgent ****, and your religion is just as much an exercise in delusional fantasy as is Judaism or Christianity.

So, telling me what the Jews did does not signify, nor does it in any way excuse the lecherous old bastard Mohammed, and his buddy, Abu Bakr, the nasty bastard who turned his daughter over to Mohammed.

Now, if you were a Shi'ite, you could just deny it all, because, of course, although Muslims themselves and adherents of the putative "truths" of the Quran, they don't buy the Abu Bakr/Aisha story at all. They consider it propaganda . . .
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ali87
 
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Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:05 pm
A 9-year old Thai girl gave birth:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Immortaltech/dude/thaigal.jpg



In our world today, we still have people especially in the third world countries, marry very young girls. Why should we call someone who married a 9-year old girl 1400 years ago a child molester, when we still practice it today? The girl above even gave birth at the age of 9!
And should we also call Aisha's (our Prophet's wife) parents child molesters too, since they agreed by their own will and choice to marry their daughter to our Prophet, and they were proud of it too?




A 12-year old Christian girl getting married in Romania:
The following article was taken from: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/09/30/romanian.gypsy.ap/index.html
My Purpose: To show the reader that even today, and even among the Christian societies, little girls are given away for marriage at a very young age. So condemning Prophet Muhammad's Marriage from Aisha, which happened 1500 years ago is ridiculous, because not only today little girls get married, but it is strongly believed among Jews and Roman Catholics that Mary was between 12 to 14 when she got pregnant with Jesus.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Immortaltech/dude/gypsy_girl.jpg


Birita Mihai, 15, and Ana Maria Cioaba, 12, walk into a church during their controversial wedding.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/gypsy_girl.htm
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:07 pm
So you think that excuses the illiterate rapist Mohammed? Among civilized nations, he is still to be considered a self-indulgent pederast . . .
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ali87
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:08 pm
What about the Bible's Prophets' marriages?

When we read the Bible, we learn about some Prophets marrying many wives, even hundreds of wives in some cases. Let us look at some of the verses from the Old Testament:

In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

And knowing that the Bible's Old Testament allowed before for men to have sex with girls who were at the age of 3, then it wouldn't surprise me that those Prophets who had 700 wives for instance, had many very young "teenage" girls before as their wives.

It wouldn't surprise me if they too had wives that were younger than Mary when she got pregnant, and younger than Aisha when she got married.

Since there are so many wives that those Prophets married (hundreds of wives), then how would anyone know that they didn't marry young women as our beloved Prophet peace be upon him did with his marriage to Aisha peace be upon her?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:11 pm
Makes no difference to me . . . i despise anyone who behaves that way, why should i think that such a crime committed by a Jewish, selfish bastard, or a Christian, selfish bastard--excuses Mohammed for being such a selfish bastard that he can't wait to dip his pecker in a nine-year-old girl?

You can run off to your "answering christianity" web site all you want--i'm not a Jew, i'm not a Christian. Cataloging crimes of those religions does not impress me, and does not excuse the behavior of your boy Mohammed (may all the devils of Hell bugger him as he deserves).
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ali87
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:11 pm
Why are pedophilia and homosexuality common in the Christian churches?

http://www.answering-christianity.com/pedophile_and_homosexual_priests.htm
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:13 pm
Well, in all honesty, Ali, I couldn't care less for the Bible. Just because more than one ""holy text"" talks about it, it does not justify it.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:13 pm
I really don't care if they are, Ali . . .

You have not denied Mohammed's paedophilia, and talking about what Jews or Christians have done, or have been reputed to have done, does not excuse it.

Face facts, your "prophet" was an illiterate, self-indulgent old bastard who raped an immature girl . . . no amount of "oh yeah, well look what they did" will ever change that.
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:15 pm
ali87 wrote:
Why are pedophilia and homosexuality common in the Christian churches?

http://www.answering-christianity.com/pedophile_and_homosexual_priests.htm


I could ask the million dollar question about why certain practices (terrorism) are common among Islamic faith.... but that might be twisted as a nasty, hateful remark.
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ali87
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:16 pm
the age consent in the US and Europe only 100 years ago for girls' marriage was as little as 10:

The following was sent to me by brother Johnny Bravo; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:

Assalam Alaiqum Brother Osama.

I thought you might find the following information of some use pertaining to the marriage of Hazrat Ayesha (RAA) with Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). I took this info from the soc.religion.islam newsgroup and it is written by various knowledgeable Muslims informing that the age of consent in the USA was 10 hardly 100 years ago and 11 in the UK, Talmud allowing 3 year olds to get married! etc. :-

"(And there is evidence that Ayesha was substantially older. That some of our ancient scholars preferred the younger age shows, in fact, that they did not consider marriage at that age to be reprehensible, otherwise they would have preferred the evidence for a later marriage and consummation.)

At the time the marriage was arranged, Muhammad had not left Makka; he was not the leader of a powerful community; indeed, his life was in danger. I raise this point because it is asserted, sometimes, that, essentially, he could have whatever he wanted. Rather, if this marriage had been an outrage to the community, it would have been *very* harmful to his cause."

Above comments by Abdulrahman Lomax.

The age of sexual consent is still quite low in many places. In Japan, people can legally have sex at age 13, and in Spain they can legally have sex at age 12. (This data comes from the Age of Consent chart, which you can see at: http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)

The Prophet's contemporaries (both enemies and friends) clearly accepted the Prophet's marriage to `Aisha without any problem. We see the evidence for this by the lack of criticism against the marriage until modern times. However, a change in culture caused the change in our times today.

A 40-year-old man having sex with a 14-year-old woman may be a "pedophile" in the USA today, but not in China today (where the age of consent is 14), nor in the USA last century. Biology is a much better standard by which to determine these things in my view, not the arbitrariness of human culture.


***** In the USA last century, the age of consent was 10 years old. California was the first state to change the age of consent to 14, which it did in 1889. After California, other US states joined in and raised the age of consent too. (Source: http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.htm)

As for the reasons why we age of consent just seems to get higher and higher, Essentially, we need more education just to survive in today's society, and this takes much more time. This additional education we need to function in today's society seems to me to be the main cause of the increase in the age of consent in many 20th century societies. The Common Law age of consent was 10. The French penal code raised the age from 11 to 13 only a century ago. In England, it was only in 1929 (70 years ago) that the ancient Christian minimum age for the marriage of females, which was 12, was abandoned. The early rock and roll singer Jerry Lee Lewis was considerably older than his 13 cousin whom he married in all legality in Arkansas. Since then, the age there has been raised to 16. That marriage lasted for about 15 years and there was never any other "scandal" associated with Jerry Lee Lewis. The story is quite different, however, for his cousin Jimmy Swaggart (the well-known and disgraced tele-evangelist) who married a woman his own age but later publicly confessed that he was an adulterer and a whoremonger.

In the seventh century, 3 year old girls were burned to death or tortured in Europe for copulating with demons, witches and sorcerers. Strong sexual passions were attributed to the youngest children. Even Jean Bodin, one of the greatest legal authorities of his time, said that the appropriate age of consent for a female was 6. (I do not mean to suggest that 3 year olds did in fact have sexual relations with demons. It is however interesting to see that at that time it was publicly believed that child-adult relations were the fault of seductive children who sought out mature men rather than today's popular belief that it is instead pedophiliac adults who prey on innocent, unsuspecting children.)

In the US (an example of a prominent western country, since the west had the greatest effect on the world in the last couple of centuries.) They considered a seven year old female competent on making decisions regarding sex, though it was raised later on (in 1886, after attempts to raise the age of consent, Delaware was the only state to retain the common law age of seven, while twenty five states set the minimum age at a mere ten.) In older times, children were not perceived in the same sense that we perceive them, but the perception was changed gradually, which is due to a great extent to industrialization, and of course sigmund freud and others came along with their theories and supported these changes in social thinking (the word adolescent itself was introduced as recently as 1904.)
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Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:17 pm
All the Bibles are old books written by people. Your vague and desperate comparasins to modern science prove nothing except your claims that the Quran is the word of god is vague and desperate.

You along with Jews and christians are f**king the world up.

Do you think a just god would give his blessings to that or to you?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 03:18 pm
None of which excuses what your boy Mohammed did, Ali . . . are you trying to contend that it's OK for a nasty old bastard to rape a nine-year-old, just because he claims he has god on his side?
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