My parents each had a difficult relationship with their own parents. I vividly remember, when I was a kid, having some sort of get-together with relatives and then afterwards my parents complaining vociferously to me and to each other. This created a conflict for me -- was I being disloyal to my parents if I liked my grandparents? I never quite knew how to act, when I was with a given grandparent and my parents were rolling their eyes at each other behind the grandparents' back over this and that.
While I have my own complaints about my parents, I have been very careful not to do that with sozlet -- if I have to complain, I do it in private, not in front of her. She has a very good relationship with all of her grandparents, which I'm happy about.
I have a sister-in-law who has some health and possibly psychological/ brain issues (the latter is not clear), who has two children (7 and 4) by two different men. Both pregnancies were marked by growth of a brain tumor; the first required invasive brain surgery, the second was dealt with via a non-invasive laser procedure. She was dependent on her parents (E.G.'s parents) before she ever got pregnant, and has been heavily dependent on them since. They spend a lot of time and energy helping to raise the two kids; my father-in-law retired shortly after this started and my mother-in-law has always been a stay-at-home mom, and their retirement plans have been shot to ****.
So when E.G. signed to me over sozlet's head last night, after getting off the phone with them, that sister-in-law is pregnant with baby #3, my reaction was loud and appalled. (The father is just some guy who doesn't want to be involved, btw, if she was becoming more self-sufficient it would be different.)
Sozlet, of course, wanted to know what was up. E.G. signed (useful if she's not looking) that he wanted to disconnect the (BAD) reaction from the information. I agreed. I told her I'd tell her the next day (it was near bedtime).
On the one hand, though, I DO want to go ahead and give the message that yes, that's dumb and thoughtless and I heartily disapprove. On the other hand, I don't want to speak ill of family members who she loves. I can probably strike some middle ground, but still curious about balance.
Soz, I really think you should talk to that little thing and let her know that often things go wrong among people that we love. I think children are more frightened by what is unknown, than what is known. You, of course, will know exactly how to handle it.
That is quite disconcerting about your sister-in-law.
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sozobe
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 08:57 am
Quite. :-?
My first concern is for her health -- there has been a clear cause-and-effect with previous pregnancies.
Second concern is for my parents-in-law and how stressed and tied down they are by this whole situation.
Oof.
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Phoenix32890
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 08:57 am
Soz- IMO, simply tell the Sozlet that your SIL is pregnant. At five, it is certainly not necessary to go into details about this woman's problems, and your thoughts on the wisdom of this pregnancy.
If the Sozlet has picked up on something from your reaction last night, you can simply say that you were concerned that this woman will have difficulty in raising a third child, as she has some physical problems. and that you were worried about her.
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Slappy Doo Hoo
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 09:38 am
I'd tell her you heard Santa got hit by a bus, and lost all feeling in his lower legs. You were concerned, but later found out with physical therapy Santa will regain his ability to walk, and will be able to give toys out next Xmas. However, he does have to attend some AA meetings, since he just drunkenly limped out into the street with no regard for his safety.
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boomerang
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 10:30 am
Yikes, soz. What a story.
I think Phoenix's advice is very good. Pretend your alarm was regarding SIL's health and not her decision to have another child.
It's sad that EG's parents are paying such a dear price for their daughter's behavior. Do any of the father's of these children pay child support? If not, they should be made to -- that might help relieve the financial burden a bit.
SIL sounds incredibly narcissitic.
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jespah
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 10:32 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Soz- IMO, simply tell the Sozlet that your SIL is pregnant. At five, it is certainly not necessary to go into details about this woman's problems, and your thoughts on the wisdom of this pregnancy.
If the Sozlet has picked up on something from your reaction last night, you can simply say that you were concerned that this woman will have difficulty in raising a third child, as she has some physical problems. and that you were worried about her.
Exactly. A lot of details right now just don't seem to be necessary, at least for sozlet.
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sozobe
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 10:40 am
Perhaps a complication is that we had The Talk right before all of this happened. She had been watching a documentary with lines like "After mating, the female has no more use for the male", and she asked me, "Do animals need to get married before they have babies?" For the first time (we've gone into this in a general way before), she kept asking follow-up questions, and got pretty much the whole picture (in 5-year-old terms, anyway).
Part of that whole discussion was that her cousins had different dads, which I think she knew in a general way but in context she found completely shocking. I soft-pedaled, talked a lot about how there are many different kinds of families, etc.
But since that was just yesterday, that will probably be an unavoidable part of it -- "wait, who is THIS one's dad?"
Oy.
I'll figure it out.
This has been helping, thanks.
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sozobe
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 10:52 am
One other thing is that the baby is due in April -- she (SIL) was supposed to tell us, she knew we would both be pissed, she didn't tell us, parents-in-law were dancing around it and trying to leave it to her, she kept not telling us, and then they finally lost patience.
If she was, like, 8 weeks pregnant I wouldn't say anything.
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Phoenix32890
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 10:52 am
soz- Is part of your concern is that the sozlet might generalize the idea of females having no more use for the male to you and E.G.? I think that if it comes up, (hey, she is a bright child, and this may occur to her), all you might want to to is to assure her that the three of you are a "team" and that mommy and daddy will always be together.
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Noddy24
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 10:53 am
I'm with the majority here. Announce that a new cousin is on the way.
"Who is the Daddy?"
Unfortunately, this baby doesn't have a hands-on Daddy like her daddy. This baby does have a Mommie and two siblings and a grandfather and a grandmother and an aunt and an uncle and a Sozlet.
If she wants to dither in general about unmarried mothers, grit your teeth and do your best.
If she wants to dither specifically about her fertile, feckless aunt, say that people we love do silly things sometimes, but it would be just dreadful for the baby to think that her mother was dangerously irresponsible.
You might be able to have some wing-ding conversations about spoiled milk and locked barn doors.
By the by, (not for Sozlet) is there any chance of getting Fertile Myrtle's tubes tied on Delivery Day?
Please convey my profound sympathy to your in-laws.
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sozobe
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 11:00 am
Hi Phoenix,
Yeah, we talked about that a bit yesterday. I talked about SIL being in love with the dads of sozlet's cousins "for a little while", and how she hadn't married them (makes it a little easier) and that people get married when they love each other a lot and want to stay together a long time, etc. (I know there are exceptions, but was trying to keep this very complicated thing as reasonable as possible...)
I do think it's on my mind in a general way, that I don't want to explicitly or implicitly condone SIL's choice, I think it's DUMB and doesn't just fall under "there are many different kinds of families." E.G.'s cousin and her partner adopting a boy is one thing (fine, no problem, cool), SIL being so mightily irresponsible and narcissistic and leech-like (again, if she were self-sufficient this would be a whole 'nother ball game) is something else entirely, IMO.
One the one hand, I don't want to be mean, on the other hand, I want to convey the both the idea that I think it was dumb and that we can love family members even when they do dumb things (I don't want there to be an implicit message that's dangerous about only loving people who are perfect).
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sozobe
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 11:02 am
Thanks, Noddy.
Interesting question about tubes tied. I dunno. I think she would have to be declared incompetent or something -- I don't think it's something SHE wants.
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Phoenix32890
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 11:18 am
Soz- I don't know if it is even necessary to get into condoning or not condoning your SIL's relationships. Unless the Sozlet asks, why not just be matter of fact? She is having a baby.
I think that part of your problem is that YOU are pissed off at your SIL (I would be too, if I were in your shoes). I don't know, that at the age of five, that a child should even be involved in these family dynamics. Kids that age are really too immature to really understand all the ramifications, and too much information, IMO, will only confuse and upset them.
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sozobe
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 11:26 am
Well, as per usual, more thinking than was warranted by the situation -- just told her about it, pretty casually, she was excited about the idea of a new baby cousin, I don't remember exact wording but I got some stuff in about how I was concerned about G'ma and G'pa but that I was sure it'd all work out in the end.
Went off pretty quickly and non-angstily.
Didn't go into health concerns.
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Noddy24
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 11:50 am
Perhaps her brain surgeon/oncologist/internist will make some firm recommendations.
Are you sure this woman isn't related to Mr. Noddy?
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Eva
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 01:04 pm
Does she have any relatives in Wichita Falls, TX?
Hey, Soz. It gets tougher. You can avoid a lot of discussions with a 5 year old. Try avoiding an 11-year old's questions! Actually, he's at the point where he's starting to ask them directly to the Ridiculous In-Laws, and not always tactfully.
I admit, I am starting to enjoy this...just a teensy, tiny little bit. :wink:
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Noddy24
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 01:54 pm
Eva--
Would you offer your in-laws to Soz as a Foster Family for s-i-l? I've reached my wacko quotient and the year is still young.
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boomerang
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Mon 23 Jan, 2006 04:12 pm
I was really glad I read this thread today -- where you said that you approached it very casually and it went smoothly.
Mo came up to me today and asked if me and Mr. B had friends come to our wedding. I told him that yes, we had a few friends there, and he wanted to know if he was there too. When I told him that no, he wasn't, he asked if he had still been inside my body.
<uhhhh..... casual... casual..... that's the ticket....>
No, but a few years later you were inside other mom's body and then a little after that you came to live with me.
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