Can You Make Me See Red?

You can't SEE red if you're color blind. Simple. But you can EXPERIENCE it, for there IS manifestation.
Don't connect this with truth, now. Because it has no connection with truth. You don't need to experience something for it to exist. But it doesn't mean that "anything goes." Because there needs to be some evidence before we should conclude anything. But the reliability of the Bible is questionable. And so are those who claim to experience God.

So how do you scientifically prove experience then?

Tell me, how is the red experienced in your little senario?

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Tell me, how is the red experienced in your little senario?

Light-sensitive chemical. Simple

Ack. But there's the difference.

We all probably "experience" the colour red, or sound, in different ways. Even the deaf experience sound, as Sozobe has already repeatedly explained - just in a different way. A thing that is verifiable, such as sound, or the colour red, will never be experienced by everyone in the same way, but all of us can, in some way or other, experience it - at the very least, the way I can experience Kamchatka, vicariously, through satellite photos and temperature measures.

Then there's your experience of God. Since there is no way whatsoever that God manifests himself in verifiable reality, that experience is indeed simply not available to the non-believer, in any way. And that, therefore, is where your comparison between God to the non-believer and sound to the non-hearing, strands. There's no parallel between the two. Apples and oranges. Because your experience of God truly is all in your mind.

A more logical comparison, therefore, would be with what I experienced when I did mushrooms. True, the sparkly colours and funny, twisted shapes things took on can not be verifiable in any way, and thus not be experienced either directly, or through other media, or vicariously through evidence of their appearance, by those who weren't tripping with me - by those who were not in my head. Yet my experience with shiny, sparkly things "is truth", the same as your experience with God is truth. Its just that it doesnt say anything about that which you or I experienced - be it shiny, sparkly things of twisted shape, or God.

Infrablue Wrote:

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So, for something to exist, you have to be able to experience it, MA?

Nope. In the case of Charlotte, Sandy, and David, these things do not exist to them because they have not experienced them. They may know of them, but they have not experienced them.

MOAN, you're just tedious. You start yet another thread to tout your belief, you're going to get lambasted right, left, front and rear--at which point you'll start your "well, that's just what i believe" mantra, all the while claiming that you're not trying to convert anyone, that you don't push your religion, and that you don't tout your christian virtue.

But you'll do it time and again. There'll be another thread, started by you or someone else, you'll trot out the same tired and pointless "arguments" which are no arguments at all, and you'll protest once again that it's just what you believe, that you're not trying to convert anyone, that you're not pushing your religion.

That's all you do here--push your religion, you've got your dark blue bold face posts to make them stand out, you come into other threads which have nothing to do with religion and bring up religion, you constantly make a public spectacle of your favorite superstition.

That's why others see you as a pushing religionist, that's why others see you as touting you particular version of chrisitianity over all other religions (you go into a muslim thread and try to push your silly scriptural arguments off on a fanatic as unwilling to listen to anyone else's belief as you are). You just can't let it be, you just can't let others pass by without shouting out your own personal "good news," even when it should be obvious that just about everyone who does not share your delusions is sick to death of it.

Now tell me how sorry you are that i feel that way, and it's just what you believe.

nimh, you cute little fish you! You are assuming that my experience with God is all in my mind. Well, Charlotte thinks the color red is all in your mind as Sandy thinks sight is all in your mind and David thinks sound is in your mind because they have not experienced these things.

Again, Red and sensation is abstract. God is not.

You can't compare abstract concepts with this. For God is not abstract. God is straightforward.

Experience isn't important, for it has no ties to truth. You can experience something that does not exist (hallucination). And you can also not experience something that exists (atoms).

Experience by itself is not conclusive. Because manifestation is also required.

They can not personally experience sound or sight, no, but that doesnt mean they think it doesnt exist - that they think its all in my mind (or that of other hearing/seeing people), as you claim. They can, after all, find - even experience - evidence of its existence - sound makes vibrations that can be picked up in different ways, colours have, to pick up on Farmermans post, different frequencies, and all of this is verifiably documented. They can acknowledge and verify sight and sound through other means than personal experience. And thats where sound and sight are different from God; because he can not. And thats where your thread ends, basically.

So then there is no scientific proof for experience?