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Can You Make Me See Red?

 
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:31 pm
Momma Angel wrote:

littlek,

A big bag of doggy biscuits is on it's way! You go girl! You got it! woo hoo! Laughing


explain
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:31 pm
They do say that sound exists.

They knock on a door, and see the hearing person inside turn around.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:31 pm
littlek,

Ok, half a bag of doggy biscuits.

Understand is not the right word. I knew it wasn't. Let's see, dang it, what's the word I am looking for here, ummm, ummmmm, ok, you can show an example of red to a colorblind person. Doesn't work. They are colorblind.

You can explain sound to a deaf person but they can't hear it. You can explain sight to a blind person but they can't see. Nothing you can do will actually make them experience these things. Nothing.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:31 pm
Excuse me for replying without reading the entire thread - I came up to halfway down page three and there saw this post:

Momma Angel wrote:
People, people, people. I am not talking science here! I am not talking physical anything. I am talking experiences. I am talking about experiencing something that someone else has not experienced and trying to explain that experience to them.

You are all thinking on too high a level here. It's experience that I am talking about.

But someone 'experiencing' God doesn't prove God exist.

I experienced some weird things when I took magic mushrooms. But they dont exist - not other than as a personal, psychological reaction, as a feeling.

If your point is to prove that there is such a thing as someone 'feeling' a God, then yes, you succeeded. But that says nothing about whether God exists, even less about whether what the Bible wrote about him is true.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:31 pm
Ok.. I have to say it. You can explain what sex is like to someone. They cannot fully appreciate it until they actually experience it.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:32 pm
sozobe wrote:
They do say that sound exists.

They knock on a door, and see the hearing person inside turn around.


not to mention that a deaf person can feel vibrations.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:33 pm
MA,
That you cannot communicate experience through language without contextual reference is the 'simple' point you are trying to, and have effectively communicated.
However you are also going on to assert a connection between the experience of color and the experience of god. This is where my contention lies.
However it is quite frustrating as every time you are challenged on this second point you fall back on 'I was only trying to make point A!', which obviously isn't the case.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:33 pm
sozobe wrote:
They do say that sound exists.

They knock on a door, and see the hearing person inside turn around.


The see the effects of sound. They do not experiece the sound of sound.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:34 pm
(Yeah, I was going to go into that but thought it muddied the picture -- no person, no matter how deaf, is completely without sound.)

My point there is that there are lots of observable, scientific, replicable ways to discover that this thing exists, whether one can personally experience it or not.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:34 pm
littlek wrote:
sozobe wrote:
They do say that sound exists.

They knock on a door, and see the hearing person inside turn around.


not to mention that a deaf person can feel vibrations.


Again, they FEEL the sound they do not HEAR it.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:35 pm
sozobe,

Yes, I agree, but still you cannot make them experience the sound.

nimh,

Not trying to prove the existence of God. Not at all. My point is I can no more make you experience God as I have experienced Him as you can make me see red, see, or hear.

Intrepid,

Yep!

littlek,

I didn't mean to offend! I love your doggie. You made a statement and Intrepid said he thought that was my point! I was going woo hoo for you! That's a good thing! Laughing
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:35 pm
They see the effects of sound and so know that it exists.

The experience thing is neither here nor there -- see nimh's post.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:36 pm
Why is whether you can make us experience god as you have experienced him important?
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:37 pm
Momma Angel wrote:

Not trying to prove the existence of God. Not at all. My point is I can no more make you experience God as I have experienced Him as you can make me see red, see, or hear.


ok
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:38 pm
Yes, we do HEAR it. I have a 120 db loss, literally off the charts. (Charts usually end at 100 db loss.) There are things I HEAR. (Hearing IS nothing but feeling vibrations.)
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:38 pm
Ok People. I have no concept of what the colour red is. Explain it to me so that I can envision what this red is in my mind. Explain it so that I can see it the same as you do.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:40 pm
That is not what is at issue, at all.

That was conceded long ago.

Why is that important in terms of god? Why is this in the Spirituality & Religion forum?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:40 pm
sozobe,

Like I said, I am NOT trying to prove the existence of God whatsoever. Also, I am not trying to prove color, sight, or sound. For these three people, they do not exist. Yes, someone can tell them they do exist. No problem with that whatsoever. But, nothing they do can actually make them experience it. Nothing.

I didn't know you have hearing loss. Sozobe, please I did not mean to offend in any way. I am so sorry if I did.

I understand for you that the vibrations are hearing. I feel so bad right now. I am so sorry. Please forgive me. Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:41 pm
So basically, this is an arguement against phenomenalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenalism

The fact is, there is no manifestation of god, whereas for the things you are trying to compare for god, there is.

And why do you even care about experience? Experience is not important. Truth is important.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 07:42 pm
Oh, that's not a problem at all. I thought that already came up, when we were talking about difficult times where I had to dig deep but god just didn't come in the picture for me at all -- got through it all on my own.

Sound does exist for those people, yes. They recognize it exists, just as we recognize ultraviolet exists.
0 Replies
 
 

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