Choosing the adversary.

Any religion that asks you to take one or more premises on faith is the same as any other in terms of goofiness.
However the ones that profess imaginary friends that speak for them are particularly dangerous in my opinion.

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Law # 3:

Hmmmm...

Lets see here...

I think i'll come back to that one later!

Remind me would ya?

Sure.

Thanks I appreciate it!

see next thread for the continued conversation with myself...

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I would consider myself somewhat of a religionless Christian. I believe in God (although often I have doubts) but I don't believe in Christianity as it is primarily taught. I was raised Catholic and occasionally still attend church. I believe that there probably was a man named Jesus who lived around 2000 years and preached to the people of Palestine. As far as him being divine, or saying what has been attributed to him, I am not so sure. I suppose I am somewhat superstitious as I tend to believe that certain things are not coincidences and are meant to be.

Do I need to be opposed??

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Dok,

I can see why religions that profess to have imaginary friends that speak for them would be considered particularly dangerous. Are you sure you meant for them though? Or is to them included in that too? Hmmm... I have many thoughts on this issue actually, but I'm not quite sure if I'm ready to put it out there just yet...

John,

I'm right with you on the religiousless christian thing... LOL umm... sorry if this offends anyone. I happen to hate religion actually. However, I realize that in my own mind I have a certain perception of what "religion" is, and to me it opposes most everything taught in the bible. I was going to start a band once. I came up with the coolest name. Though I don't think it would have floated in "christian" circles too well... so it may have been doomed to crash before it even got off the ground... It was going to be called ROAR...

Raging
Outwardly
Against
Religion

I guess I could be considered somewhat superstitious as well since I also tend to believe that certain things are not coincidences and are meant to be.

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How can anyone be a religionless Christian? I mean, I think I understand what ya'll are saying, but even the most basic Christian beliefs (that Jesus was sent by God to die for our salvation) come from the teachings of the church. I guess "religionless Christian" could refer to something like "gnostic", but I sort of doubt that is what you mean.
Do you adhere to an independent religious philosophy, or are you just not that into your religion?

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Hephzibah, while I'm not as anti-religious as you, I can certainly understand where you're coming from. There are many things I don't like about religion(though that doesn't make them wrong) but I know too many decent and beautiful religious people to condemn it.

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echi wrote:

How can anyone be a religionless Christian? I mean, I think I understand what ya'll are saying, but even the most basic Christian beliefs (that Jesus was sent by God to die for our salvation) come from the teachings of the church. I guess "religionless Christian" could refer to something like "gnostic", but I sort of doubt that is what you mean.
Do you adhere to an independent religious philosophy, or are you just not that into your religion?

I wouldn't describe myself as gnostic because they claim to have secret knowledge of God. The notion that Jesus was sent by God to die for our salvation, could very well have been made up by the church. I believe that many things in the Bible were added or altered for various reasons. With that said, I do believe that the Bible was based on true events and therefore has some truth in it. I was raised religious, so I've been somewhat programmed to look at things from a religious viewpoint. Sometimes I have to stop and think about things from a different perspective.

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I see. Thanks.

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echi wrote:

How can anyone be a religionless Christian? I mean, I think I understand what ya'll are saying, but even the most basic Christian beliefs (that Jesus was sent by God to die for our salvation) come from the teachings of the church. I guess "religionless Christian" could refer to something like "gnostic", but I sort of doubt that is what you mean.
Do you adhere to an independent religious philosophy, or are you just not that into your religion?

Echi for me it is more along the lines of I'm not religious. I don't carry my bible around and bang people over the heads with it. I do my best to live what I say I believe. I don't do a lot of things that have become accepted as being "religious". I just am what I am. I do the best I can to represent what I believe appropriately, but I won't be stuck into a mold. I hate molds. I hate the idea of carbon copy christians. Just doing and saying things to look good, but not living what you believe. (Not trying to cast judgement on anyone here, please forgive me if it sounds like that.)

Quote:

Hephzibah, while I'm not as anti-religious as you, I can certainly understand where you're coming from. There are many things I don't like about religion(though that doesn't make them wrong) but I know too many decent and beautiful religious people to condemn it.

LOL yeah anti-religious would be a much better term to use for me! I'm not trying to condemn it. I'm just angry and frustrated right now with a lot of things. I know my perception at this point isn't probably the healthiest it's ever been. I'll come around eventually though...

So anyway. That's all I've got to say for now.

I wish all of you the best.

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John Creasy wrote:

I would consider myself somewhat of a religionless Christian. I believe in God (although often I have doubts) but I don't believe in Christianity as it is primarily taught. I was raised Catholic and occasionally still attend church. I believe that there probably was a man named Jesus who lived around 2000 years and preached to the people of Palestine. As far as him being divine, or saying what has been attributed to him, I am not so sure. I suppose I am somewhat superstitious as I tend to believe that certain things are not coincidences and are meant to be.

Do I need to be opposed??

No.

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hephzibah wrote:

Dok,

I can see why religions that profess to have imaginary friends that speak for them would be considered particularly dangerous. Are you sure you meant for them though? Or is to them included in that too? Hmmm... I have many thoughts on this issue actually, but I'm not quite sure if I'm ready to put it out there just yet...

Dangerous for society in general, everyone included.
People with imaginary friends have been shown by history to be all to willing to kill, persecute, and even to die for them.

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hephzibah wrote:

echi wrote:
How can anyone be a religionless Christian? I mean, I think I understand what ya'll are saying, but even the most basic Christian beliefs (that Jesus was sent by God to die for our salvation) come from the teachings of the church. I guess "religionless Christian" could refer to something like "gnostic", but I sort of doubt that is what you mean.
Do you adhere to an independent religious philosophy, or are you just not that into your religion?

Echi for me it is more along the lines of I'm not religious. I don't carry my bible around and bang people over the heads with it. I do my best to live what I say I believe. I don't do a lot of things that have become accepted as being "religious". I just am what I am. I do the best I can to represent what I believe appropriately, but I won't be stuck into a mold. I hate molds. I hate the idea of carbon copy christians. Just doing and saying things to look good, but not living what you believe. (Not trying to cast judgement on anyone here, please forgive me if it sounds like that.)

Hep--

(If you have answered this question already, you can just direct me to it, if you want.)

So, are you not a Christian? Do you have faith in anything? What are your spiritual convictions? What is your take on the Bible? (etc. etc. blah blah blah)

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Echi... wow... talk about a loaded question! GOOD NIGHT!

LOL... ok... thank you for having the guts to ask me that. I have wondered if anyone really wondered where I stand.

I gave this response to a friend of mine it pretty much sums it all up. Well I consider him a friend, I hope the feeling is mutual... LOL

Quote:

I do my best not to label people. (though I admit sometimes it is incredibly difficult!) I try to see people like the can in the grocery store that the label fell off of so it's on sale for 25 cents. It's contents are a mystery. You won't know what it is unless you are willing to invest your 25 cents in it and open it up.

You could get a can of fruit cocktail... or it could be a can of squash... but if you ask me... it's worth the investment either way. I don't wear labels. I used to. First I was a "christian" but then I began to see the carbon copies the "church" was producing. I'm not that. I could never be that. Lord knows I tried and I failed every time. I even got asked to leave churches because of my refusal to "conform". So then I became a "disciple of Jesus". LOL that didn't last too long when I realized what that really meant and how far I was from being a disciple of anything good. So now what am I you ask? I am me. That's it. No fireworks. No blazing tommy guns. I'm just what I am. I am different. I don't know why. I don't know how. I used to see it as being a curse of some sort because all I wanted was to fit in somewhere. All I wanted was to feel accepted. But when I realized the cost of acceptance within christian circles I decided it wasn't a price I was willing to pay. I can't be a carbon copy. They're too flammable if you ask me... (LOL it was a joke... please don't be offended!)

As far as what I believe well it's simple:

I believe in God.

But I don't believe in shoving Him down other peoples throats.

I believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

But I don't belive that means I need to prance around proclaiming false prophesy's.

I believe that He died for my sins.

But I don't believe in condemning people if they don't believe that.

I believe that He is the reason I am here today.

But I don't believe I need to criticize people who haven't walked in my shoes.

I believe that the bible is the word of God and have yet to find a question of my own that hasn't been answered in some way by it.

But I don't believe in throwing scriptures around just to prove a point or make myself look good.

I believe in looking at yourself before pointing the finger at someone else.

Remember... You have one finger pointing at them... but three of them are pointing right back at you.

(One of the kids I used to work with told me that one time when he got me all wound up about something and I pointed my finger and him, making some bold statement... LOL boy did he put me in my place!)

I believe everyone is unique and needs to be viewed as such.

I don't believe in labeling people just because they they don't fit a certain criteria.

I believe in being real in everything I say and do.

I don't believe in pretending I'm anything particular just to appease a certain group.

I believe in doing my best to live what I believe in everything I do.

I don't believe in setting unrealistic standards to live by for myself or anyone else.

I believe in seeing the good in people. No matter how they look or act on the outside.

I don't believe in turning my nose up at anyone just because I'm not happy with what's portrayed on the outside.

I believe in being honest, even if sometimes that brings a little pain. You see, sometimes getting prodded a little is what has caused me to realize I was doing something wrong.

I don't believe in beating anyone to a bloody pulp just to prove my point or to make them feel bad.

I could go on like this forever. But I think you get my point. I am not perfect. I will never claim to be. I have to look in the mirror every day and face what I am. Sometimes I like what I see. Sometimes I see blaring imperfections I still need to work on. But regardless of everything... all my mistakes... all my trials... all my private struggles... I know only one thing.

I am who I am. That is all I can ever be.

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Quote:

Remember... You have one finger pointing at them... but three of them are pointing right back at you.

Look's like you got a little wiccan on your christianity. Better get the bleach and the steel wool

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Ummm... I have bleach but no steel wool... do you have some I can borrow Dok?

BWAAAAAAA HAHAHA!

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Re: Choosing the adversary.

Doktor S wrote:

This is a question for all the others here that actively oppose the christian mindset:
Why do you do it?

Because Asimov, Clarke, Campbell, Heinlein, Tiptree Junior, Benford, Brin, Simac et al are the true prophets, and none shall come before them.

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Doktor S wrote:

hephzibah wrote:
Dok,

I can see why religions that profess to have imaginary friends that speak for them would be considered particularly dangerous. Are you sure you meant for them though? Or is to them included in that too? Hmmm... I have many thoughts on this issue actually, but I'm not quite sure if I'm ready to put it out there just yet...

Dangerous for society in general, everyone included.
People with imaginary friends have been shown by history to be all to willing to kill, persecute, and even to die for them.

I would be far more worried about a person who believes himself to be God . That person might be far more willing to kill, persecute, etc. since he feels that he only answers to himself.

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We all only answer to ourselves, ultimately.

The difference between you and I is I have no imaginary friend to justify any of my actions or bear the brunt of the responsibility for my actions.

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echi wrote:

How can anyone be a religionless Christian? I mean, I think I understand what ya'll are saying, but even the most basic Christian beliefs (that Jesus was sent by God to die for our salvation) come from the teachings of the church. I guess "religionless Christian" could refer to something like "gnostic", but I sort of doubt that is what you mean.
Do you adhere to an independent religious philosophy, or are you just not that into your religion?

Echi,

It's a little hard to understand unless you've been there.

There are large numbers of professing Christians (at least in the US, in my experience) that bristle at the term 'religious'.

This is common in non-mainline churches, especially full gospel (or charismatic or pentecostal) and interdenominational or non-denominational, but it's by no means limited to them.

As a young Christian (this reaches way back) I also somewhat fit this mold although with maturity I rather outgrew it, and most do.

It really comes from a desire to separate oneself from the errors that might be associated with the more 'establishment' type churches which are still Christian in name (and that's about all).

A thorough New Testament reading, however, simply emphasizes that one's religion should be 'pure', not non-existent.

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Doktor S wrote:

We all only answer to ourselves, ultimately.

The difference between you and I is I have no imaginary friend to justify any of my actions or bear the brunt of the responsibility for my actions.

Do you, as a satanist, believe satan to be a real being? Or do you pattern your philosophy after an imaginary being?

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Choosing the adversary.

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