Choosing the adversary.

shear boredom. well that and the fact I hate all religionists including satanists.

Because the voices in my head tell me to.

I have always been interested in things psychological, and am very fascinated about what makes people "tick". I am particularly interested in
why some people, who are otherwise intelligent and rational, cling to what I consider a primitive superstition.

The other issue is the pernicious effect that the fundamentalists amongst us are having in the United States. I think that their influence (and the cowtowing to them by the more moderate folks for political reasons), is a grave threat to the freedoms that we enjoy.

I don't choose an adversary as a category. The closest I would get to that would probably be "ignorance" -- there is a sanskrit symbol of the lightningbolt that destroys ignorance that I like a lot.

I have nothing in particular against Christians, as a whole. I usually only enter the S&R fray when there is something specific that has been stated that I think is not only incorrect but incorrect in some important way.

Or to answer a question that has been posed to me, whether specifically or a member of a given group.

I hope it's ok that I share something here, regardless of my belief in God.

Here goes nothing...

I oppose the christian mindset as well. Though until today I've done a pretty good job of keeping my mouth shut. Oh boy...

I know you might be thinking, "Huh? she's a christian isn't she?" Please bear with me on this. I promise I won't take up too much of your time.

It is not the christians themselves I oppose, it is the mindset they function in sometimes. (umm yeah... not trying to say I don't fall into this at times...)

It aggravates the crap out of me see people talk a talk they aren't walking.

It aggravates the crap out of me to see people who proclaim to know what true love is because of God, go around hurting other people and justifying it with scriptures.

It aggravates the crap out of me to watch people tell people they know a "better way" while condemning them to hell in the same breath.

It aggravates the crap out of me to see people who are christians set standards for those who don't believe that they themselves couldn't even live up to.

It aggravates the crap out of me that they fail to see that the only people Jesus rebuked were the self-righteous "religious" people.

It aggravates the crap out of me that sometimes they are so busy pointing out the wrongs of others they fail to see how wrong they themselves are.

I'll stop my rampage with one final thing:

It aggravates the crap out of me that these things aggravate the crap out of me.

I'm tired. So tired of all of the crap. Some days I don't know if I can take anymore. We all deserve respect. We all deserve to be heard. We all deserve a fair chance. It shouldn't matter if someone agree's with your religious beliefs or not. WE ARE ALL PEOPLE. With thoughts and emotions. Feelings and ideas. Perceptions and abilities. Knowing God does not give us the right to puff out our chests and point the finger at other people, or to invalidate their person with our words. I'm tired I tell ya. I'm tired.

So condemn me to hell if you must.

Say I'm a sinner if you will.

Point out all my wrongs if you want.

Even tell me I'm self-righteous too.

You certainly wouldn't be telling me anything I didn't already know about myself.

Ok. I'm done. Thanks for reading.

I share this curiosity as well. I have my theories, but it does remain a bit of a mystery.
Human psychology in general is fascinating, but religious psychology in specific is something I've spent a good amount of time researching.

Not so rational a statement as I would generally expect from you.
Blind hatred?

I just get irritated with anyone who won't shut up about themselves already. Christians get a lot of airtime. Why? They are simply another lot of people, like H. said. Sure, they can get ultra-annoying. So can scientists and 'rational' people.

The Christian mindset will have my opposition when it goes against my core values. Some Christians do that, some don't. It's not like Christians agree or live all in the same way.

I'm taken aback by Phoenixs' response. That comes across as arrogant to me. Cold, man, cold.

Don't get me started about Satanism. You may as well be holding hands with the most pompous of Christians. Not you personally, of course. You'd more likely be smacking them on the buttocks. Same sh*t, different pile.

What is this suposed to mean? Careful not to set up a strawman....

He just likes the neat costume.

But seriously...I do it because I am concerned about the increasing power of 'fundamentalist' christian sects; and because I get very irritated when some of the christians here crap all over muslims, for instance, because their damn book says different things from the christian's damn book (especially around the ok to mess with the koran to distress helpless muslim prisoners "because it is stupid to take a book so seriously because my book doesn't tell me I have to take IT so seriously"...the illogic of that, as well as the cruelty, drives me mad); the attacks on science, birth control and sex education and, via the attack on birth control's condom dislike, the attack on combatting the spread of AIDS; the claims by some christians here to "know" stuff drives my rational self nuts (ha! oxymoron!) and occasionally drives me to comment; the hypocrisy of some of the christians here enthusiastically promoting killing in an illegal and immoral war...this is some of the stuff.

Dr S,

Speaking as an atheist, you may be surprised to hear that I consider aspects of the "Christian Mindset" as one of the relatively more appealing arguments by religionists. I am not speaking of the fairy stories of "Jesus" or "God", but of the "universal love" angle. A total impracticality, I know, but it does capture certain transcendental nuances of "harmony" familar to those who have indulged in meditational practises.

As I may have said before, whether the temporary "selflessness" of meditational states is a neural epiphenomenon or whether it indicates a "heightened consciousness" can never be answered, but what it does do is leave a door open for erstwhile religionists which might wish to shed the baggage of dogma.

All fundies whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or other hold that their particular book is inerrant so we must go into the text and show the contradictions and nonsense. I remember asakid when not knowing what was in the Bible and being scared that the world would end. After reading the Bible I believed everything till 'novelty effect' wore out, after reality checked in and internal rumination took place to realize that the Bible is full of half truths, myth and borrowed fables and just Jewish folklore. Consulting outside sources confirmed my disbelief.

"Reason" is a valuable tool that, if respected by more people, could lead us to a better understanding of reality and help us to realize a better world.
Some Christian fundamentalists seem to reject "reason". They seem to be afraid to rely on their own cognitive abilities... afraid to challenge established authority, so they never really know whether or not it is even legitimate. (This is why I think that many Christians, in denial of their "fear", choose instead to call it "faith".)
This unwillingness to challenge established authority (like church dogma) also leads to dangerous interpretations of the Bible, which leads to support for wars against Muslims and blind support for Israel, as it is seen to be fulfilling some Biblical prophecy.
So, I wouldn't say that I "actively oppose the Christian mindset", but any mindset that actively opposes the application of "reason".

I am curious as to why my words had the effect that it did on you.

Hepzibah- I thought that your "rant" was wonderful. You really told it like it is. I think that if there were more Christians like you, there would be far less rancor in A2K in particular, and the world in general. Kudos to ya, girl!

I have no problem that people have problems with certain aspects of Christianity. No problem at all. What I do have a problem with is when all Christians are deemed the same because of the activities or mindset of some.

Doktor S, would Satanism be considered a form of religion? If so, would you consider it irrational in the sense that some view Christian belief?

For me, Satanism is the exact opposite of Christianity. I am sure you understand that. So, if Satanism is on one end of the spectrum and Christianity is on the other, what would make Satanism anymore rational than Christianity?

Fresco,

Ehh..I don't. I think the idea of trying to 'love everyone' is very unhealthy, as you tend to lose your powers of discernment.

Oh boy here we go again.


When it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. Non thinking dogma robots like yourself tend to further this 'problem'.

Yes, and No.
Although many would say Satanism does not meet the requirements of a religion, some would say it does. I see it as an unreligion
If you think it irational, you can tell me why. However I think that might require some research on your part, so I won't hold my breath.

In many ways that is true, just not the way you intend.
.
No faith based beliefs. Satanism is founded on rationality (part of why some of us call it an unreligion)

How does one know if one's conclusions are rational or a rationalization?