Setanta wrote:Aiden, i was unaware that you are an expatriot--i had thought you were a native of Cornwall--please accept my apology for my tone, which was bred of exasperation.
As for what does or does not constitute tolerance, note the leading "have you stopped beating your wife?" type of question which MOAN asks above, to wit: "Are there any theists you don't consider intolerant, Setanta?" I was not about to fall for that crap--no matter how i would attempt to answer such a question, i would implicitly be agreeing that i consider someone intolerant because that person is a theist. This is false--i don't condemn anyone for simply being a theist, rather, it is when i see intolerance, bigotry, hypocricy, deceit . . . that i condemn the person. One may suggest that their religion plays a factor in their bigotry or intolerance, but the condemnation derives from the behavior, not the professed belief. This sort of thing is poisoning the atmosphere here far more than any silly is/is not exchanges going on--there are many people here who are professed christians, and several Jews, and i have had no acrimonious exchanges with any of them. However, recently, there was one unpleasant episode with someone who is a very dear friend here because of the strife recently imported to this site, and one individual whom i have know since the days of Abuzz has started to get nasty with people because of the religious issue. A few members here are polluting the site precisely because of their insistence upon religious militancy reminiscent of nothing so much as the religious hysteria that currently grips the country.
Set - I get what you're saying- and I'm glad to hear you say it. I disagree with a lot of the judgemental behavior of people who call themselves Christians too. But I don't think Christians have the lock on judgemental behavior, intolerance or bigotry, among religious
or irreligious people. A certain brand of people who call themselves Christian justify their hatred by twisting what Christianity is imeant to be into what they want it to be just as a certain brand of people who call themselves Muslims twist the words and teachings of Allah to fit their hatred- this has been true of religion throughout history. I don't know what you're dealing with here on A2k because I don't read very much of it anymore. But the threads I do read, I read carefully before I post. And I read the thread Phoenix referred to in its entirety.
So Soz I am aware that when she used the word irrational - it wasn't in a positive light. I was objecting to the question - "Can a religious person live a rational life?", as if religious beliefs somehow preclude a rational (which to me would need to be a prerequisite for productive) life. This does seem insulting and belittling of people's beliefs to me.
I am a believer in God as a creator, but I don't go to church anymore because I can't deal with the judgement and politics that I have consistently found in organized religion. So I just try to find my own way, and teach my children what I learn along the way- and
I don't agree that it is irrational to look at the world around me and find beauty and wonder that is worthy of being worshiped. You might - and that's you're prerogative-but I think it's rude and insensitive to label
me, as a believer in something larger than and outside of myself, as irrational because I've had experiences that have taught me to look at life differently than you have.
Because the truth of the matter is that judgement, intolerance and politics are present in any organized body of humans who gather for any purpose. So it aint just religious folks who engage and indulge in judging people because they make them uncomfortable or they seem different in some way. Sadly, I think it's human nature and the choice remains for each and every one of us whether to contribute to it or not. I'm just advocating tolerance-not religion.
